So, Renfield is this drug, created by Vampires, Banshees, Nosferatus, Wendigos, Dzoo-noo-qua or Goblins, presumably just by drawing some of their blood and losing one point of essence, according to RW, p. 68.

It further says, that 'once the pawn has become addicted' and states that the addiction threshold is 3 for purposes of addiction tests (both physical and mental) as on p. 256, SR4A.

I'm considering doing this to (a) player(s), and a few questions came up in my mind:

1.) Renfield is stated to be mentally and physically addictive. What does a character roll? Wil+Log for mental, Bod+Wil for physical addition is clear, but do they roll both? One, but lowest, one but highest?
What happens if it's both and one test is failed? Is the character still addicted?

2.) When ingested, the character is stated to gain 1D6 points of essence.
What happens when this raises the character's essence over 6? Is there a limit of 6, or is it the vampire's limit stated in the companion?

3.) Characters who develop an addiction gain attribute boosts and an additional IP. Is this IP cumulative with other enhancements? Cyber- or bioware? Magic? Other drugs?
How do the weaknesses work? The dietary requirement and essence loss are crystal clear, but do those weaknesses disappear after kicking the habit? Is it even possible to lose the quality, be it by expense of karma or other means?

Taking 2. and 3. together, let's assume a character with implants and 3 essence left.
He takes Renfield, gains 2 essence and is at 5 now. Can he kick the habit (and let's say he loses 1 essence during the course of his cold turkey) and end up with a stable 4 essence, or is he cursed for always and ever with essence loss and no way to replenish it without becoming a vampire or taking more of the drug?


Mechanically, I would say that an addicted character gains the addiction quality (at mild at first) and the carrier quality for HMHVV I, as well as the weaknesses for as long as he's addicted.
Should he be able to lose the addiction, he retains the carrier quality (no healing possible), but loses the weaknesses as well, with his essence dropping to the lowest point at which he was before.
At this point, I only want to see if there is actual rules text on these issues before going forward with my plans, so I need a few opinions, or, if available, quotes or locations for these rules.

Thanks in advance

1. Both. Fail either and you're addicted.

2. Historically, it would be able to go over 6. That's how I envisioned it when Dunner and I worked on it for RW.

3. I always say yes to this one, but I'm not sure what the official word is.

As for the weaknesses: Lose the Dietary Requirement (Renfield). I have no idea what I was thinking when I put that in there. I wasn't really the best at rules back when I worked on that, so I think I might have thought I was clever. I don't see them going away if the habit is broken (and I'm not even sure that it can be broken). That's one of those things that makes Renfield such a bitch.

I'm currently exploring what the hell Renfield does and what all is involved in the making of it for SR5.

Thanks for the reply, Patrick, this was very helpful.


Good, that's how I would have handled it.


Hm. So, how far would it go? Where's the limit? With +1D6 a pop this could get high very fast.


I would have tended towards this, too, making up for the 10+ BP of negative qualities.


In effect that would mean: Since you still lose essence at a constant rate of 1 per month ... Once addicted, always hooked, even if you buy away the addiction with karma expenditure and hard work.
Doesn't seem too survivable if a character decides to break away from his slave master, and this would probably make it useless for my purposes
I always want to give the players options to come back from their dark places through a lot of work.

Another question though: My gut feeling says: Addiction test after first use, would you concur?

It sounds like you are a gm looking for a story here... so... just do this one as fits your style of play. Give the players the opions you want them to have. Maybe create a new price to pay in the end or at least a nuisance; something that offers drama.

I am indeed, but I first look if there are actual rules before I decide on breaking them, bending them or making up new ones

Thanks for the advice, though.

MacGuffins. There is a magical artifact that will help with withdrawal.

Wasn't there a vampire hunter that was also a vampire that had such a MacGuffin that'd work for this purpose? I don't recall his name or what he's from, but I recall people talking about him on Dumpshock before.

Think you mean Martin De Vries, Vampire Hunter and recently outed in public by an Infected gang/movement as being a Vamp himself in Storm Front I believe.

Street Legends mention his use of a special focus to get around some of the vamp problems as follows:

Yes, addiction after first hit. I would also say no limit to the Essence gained. If you want to take enough that makes you more and more addicted, then by all means, get your 20+ Essence. Just know you dug yourself into a really deep hole. If having frak-tons of Essence becomes problematic for him (Assensing, ect), then he can always offer his excess to the Special Infected who created the drug for him in the first place (which was kind of the point of the thing) to keep him in check.

~uuuh~ Good old Renfield ...

Sorry, but I'd suggest forgetting it completely, because without additional rules you'll face the possibility of character that can have pretty much all implants (both cyber and bio) installed and still not being a cyberzombie. And you seriously don't want to consider an actual cyberzombie that is turned into a "Renfield", held at optimal negative Essence value to perform further cyber- and bioimplantation and after all required systems are in is cut off from additional doses: While medical teams haven't successfully gone beyond -6 there's rulewise no actual limit for negative Essence once the cybermancy ritual succeeded => Eventually he'll turn the whole Gaia-Sphere into and astrally hazed black hole.

Oh and let's not forget, that the HMHVV-patient who provides the Renfield can pretty much stay at his maximum Essence provided that the Renfield doesn't "glitch" too often (by roling just a 1).

Idea: Nice
Execution: Miserable failure

That was the guy I was thinking of. Would his focus help at all, or am I misunderstanding how Renfield works.

In my example, a focus would not help, since the character in question cannot bind focuses

moar vampire pcs?

More vampire fiction, to be sure. Vampire PCs need to go spend some time in the sun.

And if anyone needs some SPF500 sunblocker, we do have a truckload that was .. ahh.. diverted from being delivered to an Ordo retreat.

See, you phrase this in a way that if I didn't know your stance already, I could interpret your meaning in two opposite directions.

~Umi

Maybe less PC's as it appears it may not necessarily require a.. Voluntary .. Subject to produce.

Some modified blood magics might well help in extracting the necessary elements and essence as well as fine tuning the final mix.

Now imagine a suitably talented BM hunting down vamps to harvest, especially a PC.
No matter how evil some of the stuff out on the edges can be,good old fashioned human evil can usually match it.

Or for that matter, most RenHeads do not know the full process and rumours run thick about it, including one claim it is just dehydrated vamp blood. Yeah 1:1 the vamp PC can drop kick most street scum, but what about a swarm of RenHeads out to overwhelm and bleed the PC in the belief he has a fountain of Rennies in his veins.

So, to make a Renfield, first you take Tom Waits, and...

love this game

This is an interesting take on things. I had been toying around with the idea of playing a non-infected character who uses a very high loyalty Vampire contact to obtain Renfield symbiotically, but your take on things actually has me picturing a PC vampire hunter who captures his prey and then drains them of their power, turning the vampire's powers against their own kind - that'd appeal to certain kinds of minds as "poetic justice".

~Umi

My BM was just looking to sell the harvested Renies, but your concept is certainly more "tragic hero" minded.
In his mind he uses monsters to hunt monsters, justifying it to himself.
Lots of RP potential as he slips deeper and deeper into the dark, especially when the addiction starts to kick in.

And the best part is there's always the option of eventually going mad and actually becoming full vampire, because of the wonkiness of the Carrier quality as it interacts with Renfield.

~Umi

You could also play the hunter in a Sith like relationship, a master and student, except in this case the student ends up slaying the master not just to take power, but because by that time the master is so far along, he is probably ready to turn and it's the student's 'graduation' so to speak to slay and harvest his former master.

See, these are all really good ideas. This is why I'm a fan of the Infected. They offer up a lot of potential for stories.

~Umi

This is exactly why the whole concept should never in a million years have seen print, and at least as far as my games go, is written out of existence by GM fiat.

If this -was- doable, it -would- be done. Aztechnology would have pens full of captive HMHVV carriers with which to create what is essentially a magical immunosupptressant that lets them build cyberzombies without the pesky deaths.