Have watched the first three episodes of Almost Human and saw two new toys that would work great in Shadowrun. The first was a DNA bomb, a fun little device that is completely tech based and scatters thousands of DNA samples in an enclosed area that it becomes impossible to pick out a specific sample for examination or use as a link. The second piece was a shimmer mask, a spray that is applied to the face and hands that is undetectable to the naked eye but causes severe refraction to all technical observation methods (ie. camera's, video's, fiber optics.) The spray makes identification from enhanced visual means nearly impossible. It does have the draw back that if the camera is actually being watched by a human or sufficiently sophisticated software the shimmer effect is immediately noticeable.

Gonna write these two up in the next couple days and post them.

Sounds interesting...

Nifty. I can't help but think that you could do either today, though, nevermind in the future. Splash grenade for the former, infrared LEDs around the face for the latter.

Just a matter of collecting or producing all the DNA stands.

Any street doc/ orgenlegger/ Tanimus contact should be able to help you out there.

I think what Bigity & KarmaInferno were talking about is doing that IRL. The DNA you can get by using PCR. You just need to get a hold of a lot of DNA.

Easy, bribe some janitors who vacuum a busy workplace or a public facility like say a train/bus station to turn over the vac bags they used on the floor/seats. All the hair and skin cells being shed should give you a pretty broad range of material to work from.

Or get a job bussing tables at a restaurant and wipe the lip of each glass. Imagine how many different people you would get from the lunch rush near a large company or at the mall. Do it near the airport and you can collect a broad spectrum of folks.

So here is the write up for the DNA Bomb:

DNA Bomb
Covering ones tracks, a skill so ancient that cavemen used it and which is still relevant today. In the past clandestine operatives, whether they were working for corporations, governments, or free lancers all had to worry about the tech boys finding something they left behind that could be used to identify and track them. Today Magic has added spirits and ritual spells to the operatives list of things to worry about.

Until recently Magic was the only sure fire way to obliterate ones genetic leavings without using methods that would leave severe collateral damage. Now though technology has come up with its own way of rendering possible genetic clues and links unusable. The DNA Bomb is a pressurized nitrogen gas/liquid mix that contains literally thousands of living DNA samples that have been treated so as to contaminate any crime scene so thoroughly that identification becomes impossible. The same contamination also renders any possible link material unusable do to the inability to separate out individual samples.

Range: Diameter (Rating x 10 meters)
Availability: (Rating x 5) F
Duration: special
Cost: Rating x ¥5,000.00

Within an enclosed space smaller than or equal to the range of the specific DNA Bomb finding uncontaminated samples is impossible. When used outside or in a space larger than the range of the specific DNA Bomb add the rating of the DNA Bomb times two to the threshold of the search roll, subtracting one for every meter from the detonation site.

I like the write-up, but I think it's way too expensive, especially for something disposable.

It may be too expensive but was thinking about the fact that it has no purpose except to help criminals avoid capture. Hence the forbidden rating and the difficulty of putting it together suggested a high price. We are talking about thousands of DNA samples having to be collected, stored, and treated so as to enhance the contamination factor. However, as I said it may be over priced when compared to the price lists in Shadowrun.

Mostly, I was commenting on the price compared to the price list in Shadowrun.

Never understood the pricing in Shadowrun. Some of the drones and other tech are way low and other pieces are almost where they would be if in the real world. However, just off the Shadowrun lists I would probably drop the price to a thousand times rating.

I would probably drop the price and just leave it at 10m spread. Most grenades don't have a rating, just the area they cover, even the 10m stun ones. Considering it generally doesn't need to blanket a football field at a time, only where DNA evidence is located, any time more than R2 or so is required, is a big enough undertaking that simply having more R1 bombs should not be an issue. Keeps it simple as well so there isn't so much fiddling around with what size to use in which room. I know my players would be measuring the rooms to not spend more nuyen than necessary per use. The one in the show only covered a small room, 10m will easily do that and more. Covers both rooms of my apartment if the wall wasn't in the way.

Glad I am not the only person that thought of SR while watching that show. I was thinking about it the entire time. It will probably make it onto the list of things to introduce people to for SR, especially if it gets popular.

Easier than a bomb, cheaper too:

1. get your stock of DNA, or better yet (if possible) stem cells which you then propagate under accelerated mutation conditions so that you have a really nice, diverse cloud
2. collect a lot of your cellular material, suspend in a fluid, such as plain water
3. spray bottle for application (if you really insist on greater dispersal, make it one of those pump pressurised garden sprays for insecticide application)

Directed application? Narrow stream. Wide area? Fog setting.

Since you don't care how whole the cells stay after deposition, you can be pretty rough with them in deposition and the DNA will still be fine. The biological end is very easy in shadowrun levels of cybertech, and if you offer to help a street doc with cleanup, possibly free.

New tech:

Shimmer Spray

No one knows who first came up with “Shimmer Spray” but the formula for creating it has been available on the Matrix for at least six months, prior to that its use was a growing concern to law enforcement agencies around the globe for nearly a year. The spray coats the head and hands in a clear, quick drying gel that is totally undetectable to the naked eye (Chem Sniffers can detect it though.) Once the gel sets any video or visual (mechanical, fiber optics) sensor feed of the user displays a sparkle affect that completely masks the head and hands from any current identification protocols. The spray has no effect on the naked eye or any other senses.

Shimmer Spray is not massed produced by any company or corporation for sale to the public but a limited offering can often be found in Krylon’s (A wholly owned subsidiary of Evo Corporation) restricted catalogs for security forces. As mentioned above, the formula for a type of Shimmer Spray has appeared on the Matrix and can be produced by any semi-competent Street Doc with a chemical lab and know how.

>>>>>(This stuff won’t protect you from being identified by a “rent-a-cop” if you run into him face to face. It can also act as a flag if security is actually watching the feeds real time. A glittering ball of light where a face should be pretty much screams “I am up to no good!”)<<<<<
Kane (12:10:41/06-05-74)

Range: Contact

Availability: 10F

Duration: Special

Cost: ¥300.00

Thought we ha DNA bomb type thing already, have to dig out books tomm.
Might be able to pull off mask with the nanite paste?

I don't know about that shimmer mask. Cybereyes are pretty ubiquitous, and I assume people with cybereyes will be able to pick you out of a crowd very easy, seeing how you're face is a neon sign, and neon signs have a threshold of 1.

On the subject of Flash Masks:
Causing refraction along the visible spectrum would stand out to everyone because that's what our eyes perceive, however cameras have sensitive chips that aren't quite so fine tuned to the visible spectrum. Most cameras these days have some sort of IR filter to block out stray infra red glare and to avoid oversaturating/overloading the sensor chip. IR filters are perfectly fine for your average levels of IR, but they still let a percentage of the light through.
With contemporary high intensity IR LEDs it's possible to put a bright light on your face. Not very useful to avoid detection, but to the naked eye it just looks like you're wearing clear LEDs.
With this in mind, I think it's totally possible to have some sort of nano-spray that radiates IR light everywhere with a high scatter. You'd look sweaty to the average eye, but security cameras would pick your head up as a ball of white and on thermographic sensors you would shine like a star.

Cyber eyes would have more advanced filters imo, to prevent hot feedback to the user. Bringing those filters down and interpreting the data is basically thermographic vision anyway

As for DNA bombs, 4e's Arsenal had a piece of chemtech called C-Squared (Cleaner Cleaner) with a rating(1-6)*15$ cost. Considering that it adds its rating to the threshold of finding any usable forensic evidence and can be put into a gas grenade (default 10m radius), I'd say it counts as an analog to the DNA bomb. Rating 6 grenade of this would cost 130$.

Have any of you heard of those privacy glasses that use infared lasers to hide your Identification from cameras?

Perhaps if you were on a 2 person infiltration run and neither of you know any magic spells for hiding yourself, and your not planning on letting anyone see you, ninja style. But you might run into drones or cameras. just slap those glasses on, and even though you might not be allowed there, the computer will take a second longer trying to identify you as an intruder or a guard, giving you enough time to move. As long as your not being watched by a person it could work.

i'm new to the mechanics of the game, so idk if there's a rule to that

or you could wear them when your out in public, perhaps a sunglasses model. and if your wanted, as long as you don't see any actual people like police looking for you. no identifying, monitoring, reporting programs can document you.

is this a viable piece of equipment?

The problem with PCR is hardly ever that there is too little DNA. The problem is that even a faint trace from the factory where the cotton swabs were packaged can lead police on a merry chase for years. Since you don't care what DNA you amplify, any source is fine -- door knobs, old straws, samples from a blood bank etc.. Or just synthesize the DNA from nothing but data (LS genetic fingerprint repository, maybe?), the technology is already affordable.

I like the idea of the dna bomb, it's all but impossible to leave not traces so this goes the other way. my only concern, ands it's minor, is you can't spray down an entire corp facility so what you will see is where you set it off, you're drawing the sec teams' interest to what you're doing . "Why this office and no other?"

I think the DNA bomb is needlessly complex. Splash Grenade + Cleaner Cleaner.

~Umi

But unless the C² covers each and every surface, it might miss the one spot with a DNA trace which does not belong to someone with legitimate access. With the "overload" method the scene is littered with the DNA of hundreds of people who shouldn't have been there. Even assuming a complete DNA database of the population and trivial effort for analyzing collected traces, the police would be faced with years of interviews...


Of course, a combination of both would probably be the most effective: Complete overabundance of leads, and the correct one might not even be among them.

And unless the DNA bomb covers each and every surface, you might leave your actual DNA trace elsewhere.

"We found samples of 1004 different DNAs in the server room, but we found samples of 2 distinct DNAs in the connecting air ducts, one of which is rat DNA, and the other of which is Dwarven."

And if these DNA grenades are mass produced in any amounts, the DNA used inside them is going to quickly be catalogued.

"Sir, the first five traces we've taken in this room all correspond to a DNA grenade."
"Interesting. Well, start figuring out the likely blast radius and start combing for traces beyond that."

~Umi

Not each and every surface, it suffices to have a some other DNA land in the general area. To "delete" your DNA, on the other hand, a bit of C² needs to land right onto the skin cells you lost in the air duct.


Hence the suggestion to gather random DNA from lots of different sources, or just make up random bits yourself.


Of course, for complete deniability you'd need to cover all four possible scenarios:
- "He was there and his DNA is there"
- "He wasn't there and his DNA is there"
- "He was there and his DNA is not there"
- "He wasn't there and his DNA is not there"

The DNA bomb misses out on No 3, so one of the traces found will definitely belong to the runner (unless you want to rely on sloppy forensic technicians ). Covering that would require something that randomly removes some of the original traces on the scene, and then plants new ones. But even with just the DNA bomb, all the police knows is that one of let's say 2000 people probably was involved. They'll detain a few token suspects, maybe beat a confession out of one to fulfill their quota, but never investigate more than a tiny fraction.

That's not the point.

Adding a bunch of false DNA markers only works without fail if you manage to plant them EVERYWHERE. If there's a single room or an air duct or whatever that contains only your DNA (and possibly the DNA of others who can easily be ruled out, like rats or the janitor), they can tell that you have been there. And if you make a habit of using DNA grenades, they're gonna link you to previous crimes to boot.

This is no better or different than C². The area affected by the grenade will be unuseable in either case, but everywhere else is still just as incriminating. It doesn't matter whether they have 1000+ DNA samples or 0 DNA samples in a specific room, in both cases the result is the same - they can't pick out your specific DNA, but only for that room, within the AoE of the grenade.

My entire point is that the DNA grenade is no better than a C² grenade. They both serve the same purpose, and have the same limitations. Why reinvent the wheel? (Especially since adding 1000 DNA samples technically doesn't destroy your DNA sample, and if they can rule out 1000 samples out of 1001, then all you did is waste their time and effort.)

~Umi

C² HAS to go everywhere (for that room, within the AoE of the grenade), anything it misses (for that room, within the AoE of the grenade) points straight at you. The DNA grenade COULD go everywhere (for that room, within the AoE of the grenade), so (for that room, within the AoE of the grenade) any DNA trace is definitely useless.

How so? You think the authorities can't tell where the edge of the AoE is?

"Well, sir, on this half of the room we have every single surface coated in 1000+ DNA samples, and on the other half of the room we can only find half a dozen different samples."

"Darn! I guess that means the entire room is worthless somehow?"

"Uhh... sir... only half the room is contaminated. The other half is pristine."

"Oh. Okay then! I guess... uh... try to ID those half dozen samples from the pristine half?"

"I thought you'd never ask, sir."

~Umi

why does it have to be human dna. if it covers and spreads, that means they'll either dig threw it and realize it's a 1/1000 chance which can cost multiple tests with perhaps some leads that they might actually never find the perp they want. or they'll just toss the idea after they know what this bomb does
idk. post #4

So even after making abundantly clear that I'm talking about what happens in the AoE you still didn't get it, or don't you want to get it? I'm somehow starting to tend towards the latter...

You're just not making any sense.

The only way I can even begin to glean some sort of argument out of your previous post is if I take it to be that you think regions within the AoE can be "missed" by the C² somehow, whereas the DNA grenade might miss some sections (within the AoE), but since the DNA could have landed anywhere, it doesn't matter (for that AoE specifically).

To which I must respond, this is a game system - the C² is treated as covering every surface within the AoE uniformly, just like how a smoke grenade uniformly covers a 10m radius, and a flashbang uniformly stuns within a 10m radius, and AoE spells affect everything equally within a 10m radius. If you throw a C² grenade, everything within the AoE is treated as unuseable. Hence, the DNA bomb does exactly the same thing and is redundant.

~Umi

C-Squared adds its rating to the threshold of any test to find DNA samples in an area treated with it.

In other words, samples remaining is a very valid possibility.

I had forgotten about the ratings, I must admit.

However using a high rating, that's still as good as unuseable. Forensics dice pools don't get very large in this game. And if you're the kind of person who is smart enough to use a C² grenade, you're probably not dumb enough to use the low strength, watered down variety.

But even putting all that aside, this DNA grenade idea is just overly complicated, unrealistic, super-spy James Bond contrived nonsense. If you're worried about forensic traces, you either 1) make sure not to leave any, 2) make sure to buy the Extra Strength C² for your splash grenades, 3) bring a mage to use that one anti-forensics spell I forget the name of, or 4) burn the scene to the ground.

There's no need to create an absurd new type of grenade to fulfill the exact same function as the C² grenade. If you try to justify it by saying that the hypothetical house-rule DNA grenade could be statted to be more efficacious or even foolproof, then you're just powergaming to avoid the difficulties of using the extant methods of coping with forensics. If you tried to pull that nonsense with a custom gun or armor, you'd be shouted down lickity split, and rightly so.

~Umi

I seem to remember some guy complaining about bringing RL logic into this...anyway, the answer remains the same:


Let's say the enemy tries to transfer the coordinates to your secret hideout with pigeons. You can try to shoot down all of them, but if only one gets through you're fucked. Or you can send 500 of your own, each with random coordinates, which makes the information totally worthless. The "overload" method is hands down better as making information useless, the question is the cost of creating all those red herrings. Multiplying DNA strains or even synthesizing them from scratch is routine in every well-equipped laboratory today, and in a world where organs grown from genetic templates are commonplace? Buy a science kit from Stuffer Shack and you're set.

On some consideration, if I were designing such a DNA grenade, I wouldn't make it a single splash.

I'd give it some kind of behaviour, possibly spring-driven, which made it hop and bounce and move around, and instead of a single squirt, make it operate as a fogger so that droplets can travel and settle.

Isaac the Infiltrator breaks in, grabs the macGuffin, and just before leaving tosses a squirtybounce over his shoulder. It runs off a battery and spends the next twenty minutes hopping, rolling, bouncing and squirting puffs of suspended DNA in every direction.

For that matter, who cares about DNA? A modified form of that thing can play a song. How about this one? Or this one? Or something like this one? Always good for the pinker of mohawk who want to make a statement, especially if it will bounce down an escalator into a crowded area.