Full Version: Cyberlimbs
The cyberpunk literature almost inevitibly has one character with some form of cyberlimb, but I rarely see anyone in Shadowrun creating a character with one. I'd like to know what you guys have to say on this issue.
I love chrome. I love the look of a sophisticated Face-type in a Vashon Island suit twirling a coin between the silvered fingers of his cybernetic hand. Just love it even if my description sucks. 
Mechanically, I rarely get anything over a cyberforearm, though, since they do suck so incredibly bad for anything outside of storage space. But a hand or forearm with a direct neural interface gives you access to all kinds of memory and communications gear for a fraction of the Essence and nuyen cost of headware implants.
[EDIT] Example: Compare an obvious cybernetic hand (0.35 Essence and 20,000¥) with DNI (0.1 Essence and 4,500¥; 0.25 ECU), a DNI-accessible 1,000 Mp OMC Chip (3,000¥; 0.5 ECU), and Pocket Secretary (8,000¥; 3 ECU) to 1,100 Mp of Headware Memory (165,000¥ and 3.66 Essence) and Headware Telephone (3,700¥ and 0.5 Essence). That's a savings of 133,200¥ and 3.71 Essence, not to mention all the differences between a cellphone and a Pocket Secretary on top of that. It's one of the few bargain deals in the game.
Mechanically, I rarely get anything over a cyberforearm, though, since they do suck so incredibly bad for anything outside of storage space. But a hand or forearm with a direct neural interface gives you access to all kinds of memory and communications gear for a fraction of the Essence and nuyen cost of headware implants.
[EDIT] Example: Compare an obvious cybernetic hand (0.35 Essence and 20,000¥) with DNI (0.1 Essence and 4,500¥; 0.25 ECU), a DNI-accessible 1,000 Mp OMC Chip (3,000¥; 0.5 ECU), and Pocket Secretary (8,000¥; 3 ECU) to 1,100 Mp of Headware Memory (165,000¥ and 3.66 Essence) and Headware Telephone (3,700¥ and 0.5 Essence). That's a savings of 133,200¥ and 3.71 Essence, not to mention all the differences between a cellphone and a Pocket Secretary on top of that. It's one of the few bargain deals in the game.
The reason, of course, is system mechanics. Cyberlimbs cost. To help matters, when I GM, I halve the base price of cyberlimbs. All upgrades still go for full price though.
I also encourage used cyber at chargen.
I also encourage used cyber at chargen.
Yeah, that really is the biggest problem: you can shove stuff in them, but they're absolutely worthless as pieces of ware with the way SR handles them. Some people've suggested halving essence and nuyen costs, but this still doesn't make them incredibly attractive. When you look at most cyberpunk, body replacement is common because it makes you a lot stronger, more resistant to bullets, a lot more agile, etc (just watch anything related to GitS). SR, on the other hand, ditches all of this in favor of minimal body replacement as a general ethic.
| QUOTE (Nomad) |
| The cyberpunk literature almost inevitibly has one character with some form of cyberlimb, but I rarely see anyone in Shadowrun creating a character with one. I'd like to know what you guys have to say on this issue. |
I had a cyberhand or cyberfoot (I forget which...maybe even a cyber half-limb) on my current "muscle" to fit in a nanosymbiote hive. When I clarified some rules on nanosymbiotes (how they handle light wounds; to wit, they don't), I decided nanosymbiotes weren't worth the trouble, and that I wanted full strength in the limb (which had 4, vs the "muscle's" 6 base).
I have had fun making unlimited-budget "full borg" NPCs (even mages, for the weirdness factor), but cyberlimbs generally aren't worth the trouble.
If you feel your game needs more metal or at least want to make cyberlimbs a more attractive option here's some (totally untested) house rules:
*Halve the nuyen cost of the limbs including Strength/Quickness/Integrity upgrades.
*Remove the Multiple Cyberlimb Enchancements cost increase.
*Cybertorsos totally negate the Essence cost for cyberlimb Strength and Quickness enhancements over 3, and 2 ECU may be taken from the cybertorso for fitting Strength or Quickness enchancements per cyberlimb.
*Increase obvious cybertorso ECU to 8, synthetic to 4.
*Apply Augmented Body attribute (including cyberlimbs and bone lacing, but nothing from Dermal augmentations) to determine Strength maximums for cyberlimbs. Natural Strength has no effect on cyberlimb Strength maximums.
*Reduce the Essence cost of cyberlimbs attached to a cybertorso by 25% (multiply cyberlimb Essense cost by 0.75)
*Allow cyberlimbs to use a Ruthenium coating, although this should be incompatible with body plating.
*Don't count body plating for determining layering OR Quickness penalties.
*ECU changes for obvious cyberlimbs: Dwarf legs -3; Ork legs +2, arms +1, torso +2, troll legs +3, arms +4, torso +4; synthetic versions have the standard 50% ECU of the obvious.
*Cyberware grade has no effect on ECU amounts for obvious cyberlimbs. Synthetic cyberlimbs are effected with the standard rules.
*Any cybergun larger than a light pistol requires at least a partial cyberlimb to be installed, but all cyberguns are considered to be cybernetically controlled at no additional Essence cost.
*Cyberlimbs are legal, but cyberlimbs with Strength or Quickness over 4 are 6P-N, with a Strength or Quickness over 6 they're 6P-Q, a Strength or Quickness of 8 is 5P-R, and Strenght or Quickness over 9 is 4-R. Cyberlimb Strength and Quickness can only be determined by appropriate equipment, and observers must see characters performing outside the bounds of normal (meta)humanity to suspect an enhanced cyberlimb.
*Reduce the Essence cost of Skillwires by 10% per cyberlimb, not including cybertorso or cyberskull.
*Hydraulic Jacks require at least partial cyberlegs to be installed. They have no Essence cost when installed in full cyberlegs.
And there was a thread about the effectiveness of Move-by-Wire. How about the cyberware granting automatic successes equal to rating on all Surprise and Reaction tests.
None of these house rules have been tested, so consider it a rough draft and some are probably broken.
*Halve the nuyen cost of the limbs including Strength/Quickness/Integrity upgrades.
*Remove the Multiple Cyberlimb Enchancements cost increase.
*Cybertorsos totally negate the Essence cost for cyberlimb Strength and Quickness enhancements over 3, and 2 ECU may be taken from the cybertorso for fitting Strength or Quickness enchancements per cyberlimb.
*Increase obvious cybertorso ECU to 8, synthetic to 4.
*Apply Augmented Body attribute (including cyberlimbs and bone lacing, but nothing from Dermal augmentations) to determine Strength maximums for cyberlimbs. Natural Strength has no effect on cyberlimb Strength maximums.
*Reduce the Essence cost of cyberlimbs attached to a cybertorso by 25% (multiply cyberlimb Essense cost by 0.75)
*Allow cyberlimbs to use a Ruthenium coating, although this should be incompatible with body plating.
*Don't count body plating for determining layering OR Quickness penalties.
*ECU changes for obvious cyberlimbs: Dwarf legs -3; Ork legs +2, arms +1, torso +2, troll legs +3, arms +4, torso +4; synthetic versions have the standard 50% ECU of the obvious.
*Cyberware grade has no effect on ECU amounts for obvious cyberlimbs. Synthetic cyberlimbs are effected with the standard rules.
*Any cybergun larger than a light pistol requires at least a partial cyberlimb to be installed, but all cyberguns are considered to be cybernetically controlled at no additional Essence cost.
*Cyberlimbs are legal, but cyberlimbs with Strength or Quickness over 4 are 6P-N, with a Strength or Quickness over 6 they're 6P-Q, a Strength or Quickness of 8 is 5P-R, and Strenght or Quickness over 9 is 4-R. Cyberlimb Strength and Quickness can only be determined by appropriate equipment, and observers must see characters performing outside the bounds of normal (meta)humanity to suspect an enhanced cyberlimb.
*Reduce the Essence cost of Skillwires by 10% per cyberlimb, not including cybertorso or cyberskull.
*Hydraulic Jacks require at least partial cyberlegs to be installed. They have no Essence cost when installed in full cyberlegs.
And there was a thread about the effectiveness of Move-by-Wire. How about the cyberware granting automatic successes equal to rating on all Surprise and Reaction tests.
None of these house rules have been tested, so consider it a rough draft and some are probably broken.
| QUOTE |
| *Cyberlimbs are legal, but cyberlimbs with Strength or Quickness over 4 are 6P-N, with a Strength or Quickness over 6 they're 6P-Q, a Strength or Quickness of 8 is 5P-R, and Strenght or Quickness over 9 is 4-R. Cyberlimb Strength and Quickness can only be determined by appropriate equipment, and observers must see characters performing outside the bounds of normal (meta)humanity to suspect an enhanced cyberlimb. |
I think this could be handled a lot better.
Quickness modifications should be perfectly legal. There's nothing inherently illegal about being able to move like a demon.
Strength, assuming observers have some means to tell the rating of which a limb is augmented (is that even possible outside of a medical exam?), should have limitations based upon your natural Racial Modified Limits. Up to your RML should be perfectly legal. Up to your Attribute Maximum it should be legal with a permit. Anything over that would be illegal.
As a common house rule that should be canon (bah), all cyberlimbs should come standard with your natural attributes, up to your race's natural Racial Modified Limit (you may be a freak with Exceptional Attribute, but the manufactures had no way to know that).
At least that's how I'd consider handling it.
I also have tweaked costs and benefits of cyberlimb, and The Jopp has also put some serious effort into the matter. If you do a search, you'll find many threads with cyberlimb house rules.
| QUOTE |
| *Cyberlimbs are legal, but cyberlimbs with Strength or Quickness over 4 are 6P-N, with a Strength or Quickness over 6 they're 6P-Q, a Strength or Quickness of 8 is 5P-R, and Strenght or Quickness over 9 is 4-R. Cyberlimb Strength and Quickness can only be determined by appropriate equipment, and observers must see characters performing outside the bounds of normal (meta)humanity to suspect an enhanced cyberlimb. |
Dunno about this one; it makes all troll, dwarf and ork cyberlimbs illegal without a permit.
| QUOTE |
| Strength, assuming observers have some means to tell the rating of which a limb is augmented (is that even possible outside of a medical exam?), should have limitations based upon your natural Racial Modified Limits. |
I did the legality of cyberlimb ratings numerically to take racism into account. Most humans won't have Quickness or Strength ratings above 6, and those that do, like athletes or corp security won't have too much trouble getting permits. I figured from the perspective of the lawmakers, who cares if an ork can have a natural Strength above 8 without too much trouble; it's just a stupid ork. No "normal" human has any business with cyberlimbs that strong either. Of course, the legality ratings are for normal people in Seattle. Legalities in different regions would most likely be different, and someone of any metatype working for a corp, government, or who is a professional athlete will have accepted and legal ways around the limits.
I've house ruled it so that all cyberlimbs are set to match you own inherent strength. If your "natural" strength is 4, the limb is set to 4; if you're an otaku with strength 1, it's set to 1.
My logic is that mechanical limbs are inherently many times stronger than flesh and blood; so they have governors built in to limit the strength to something you can handle.
As an addition-- Increased Strength uses the additional costs; the essence represents additional reinforcing to your body, in order to handle the strength. So, you can have your limb set to Natural Strength +1, +2, etc. If you later increase your natural strength, a few minutes with a cyberdoc can readjust your cyberlimb.
My logic is that mechanical limbs are inherently many times stronger than flesh and blood; so they have governors built in to limit the strength to something you can handle.
As an addition-- Increased Strength uses the additional costs; the essence represents additional reinforcing to your body, in order to handle the strength. So, you can have your limb set to Natural Strength +1, +2, etc. If you later increase your natural strength, a few minutes with a cyberdoc can readjust your cyberlimb.
To be honest, given that a normal human being can achieve a strength or quickness of 9 or 10 without resorting to augmentation, I'd suggest scrapping the legality of all strength and quickness mods altogether. The idea that it is illegal for an augmented human being to be as strong as a natural troll is quite simply ludicrous. The fact that many guns are easier to get ahold of legally than strength enhancements, doubly so.
I guess it depends on the style of game and how one views the setting. When I put down those legality ratings, it wasn't relative to other weapons though, just what was already down for cyberlimbs. I also didn't try to come up with the ratings that "made sense," I made a guess at how the UCAS lawmakers of 2060 would rate cyberlimbs. Guns run out of bullets and can ge taken away and in most cases anyone who looks at a gun will know what it is [and gun laws don't make sense, so why should laws regarding cyberware?]. A cyberlimb can't (easily) be taken away from someone, they can mount armor and weapons, and enchance the strength of one possessing it. It makes sense to me that some people would want them controlled. Isn't it better that the authorities have a list of the people with this potentially dangerous cyberware?
| QUOTE |
| The idea that it is illegal for an augmented human being to be as strong as a natural troll is quite simply ludicrous. |
It makes sense depending on perspective. Trolls are super strong freaks. If someone wants to be like that, they couldn't possibly be up to any good and the proper authorities should keep track of that person (via permits). Megacorps and other "legitamate" users of high end cyberlimbs will have ways around the normal restrictions, being extraterritorial helps too.
To a large degree, legality doesn't effect Shadowrunners in day-to-day affairs anyway. A lot of what they do is illegal by definition (like decking), so I don't see the problem.
To a large degree, legality doesn't effect Shadowrunners in day-to-day affairs anyway. A lot of what they do is illegal by definition (like decking), so I don't see the problem.
| QUOTE (Backgammon) |
| I also have tweaked costs and benefits of cyberlimb, and The Jopp has also put some serious effort into the matter. If you do a search, you'll find many threads with cyberlimb house rules. |
The Jopps rules are very good (I'm his GM and helped him make the rules) although the ones in the link aren't the latest version. They have been improved with the only disadvantage being that they grew. I think they'll be too much to post here, but PM me or The Jopp with an email address and we can send the rules to you.
Should clarify that I wasn't saying that your legality ratings were necessarily bad in terms of canon (though I think taking racism into account went way too far, given how the UCAS is presented in canon); I just feel that the general system makes rather little sense for the reasons I listed above. It's not a problem for runners, really, but it's a problem for genuinely legitimate users of the stuff.
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