Obviously we all like Shadowrun, that's why we're here. I've ran quite a bit of SR5 this year already, but miss some of the elements of SR4, especially all the supplements.
In my home game, I have the luxury of there being three Shadowrun GMs. We've been talking and shooting around some ideas about how to take some of the new things we like from SR5, without giving up everything we love from SR4A... and perhaps bring a piece or two of SR3 and our own experience into the mix.

One of the first on my list is now edge. My solution is more SR3, than SR4/A or SR5, but it is what it is.
A starting character with 8 (or even 7 or 6) edge is crazy. I ran for one several times at Gen Con this year; I don't think I ever got the character to spend all 8 edge and pre-spending to turn off limits paid off several times for her to the point of really pushing the game over the top. In the end, I found myself yearning for an SR3 feel where the karma pool grew over time. To get back to that feeling, we are going to play test more of the following system:

EDGE
ACCUMULATING EDGE
Starting characters have a single edge point (humans get two) and it cannot be increased during character creation. Every 40 total karma earned, a new edge point is earned. One edge point can be spent per test.

We then looked at how edge is spent, liking most of what we had, coming to the following list:

SPENDING EDGE
Push the Limit: Preemptively add edge attribute (in dice) to a test. Rule of 6 applies to all dice in the pool. All limits are ignored.
Reroll Failures: Reroll all dice that are failures. (Glitches & Critical glitches still stand separately.)
Seize Initiative: Move to first in line for initiative for a single pass, returning to your normal position (number) for subsequent passes. Multiple characters seizing the initiative are
simultaneous.
Act Now: Spend an edge, after initiative has been rolled, to act on any initiative value. If an action would be earned this pass, it is spent. If an action would not be earned this pass, it is
gained.
Add an Action: Add one pass in the current combat turn. Must conform to one of the five times to earn a pass. No more than four physical/five matrix actions may be taken by a character
during a combat turn (even using edge).
Downgrade a Glitch: A Critical Glitch becomes a normal glitch or a normal glitch is ignored.
Deadman's Trigger: If a character has a pending action in the current pass and is going down, afterspending an edge roll Body + Willpower(3). If successful, take the action.

BURNING EDGE
Edge that is already spent may be burned.
Hand of God: You survive. This does not mean you are combat capable, it just means that whatever was going to kill you... didn't. (Perhaps, see Heavy Damage, Augmentation pg 21)
Smackdown: Get up to four successes on a test (dependent upon your dice pool. A dice pool of 2 = 2 successes. A dice pool of 5+ = 4 successes.)
Reset Button: Completely re-roll any roll, including a reset of glitches/critical glitches.

We mostly like how SR5 handled surprise. We robbed from that heavily here.

SURPRISE
“.. is a Bitch.” Surprise can occur at any time, including in the middle of combat. It is simply the effect of being caught completely unaware.
When a character may be surprised, roll Reaction + Intuition(3).
+3dp for alerted characters.
-2dp for distracted characters
-2dp vs an ambush
The effects of surprise is as follows: A character may take no action in response to the surprise effect. In example, if attacked, there is no counter, only a damage soak test.
The effect of surprise on initiative is as follows: In a new combat, the surprise action is considered preemptive to the rolling of initiative. After resolving the surprise action, all parties roll initiative as normal. In an existing (current and ongoing) combat, surprise is considered to be during the current pass affecting only the surprised parties in regards to the surprising party.

We want an initiative system that works well with miniatures. Making it consistently linked to movement is part of that.

INITIATIVE
“Start by forgetting what you know or think you know...” This is a complete rewrite of initiative from all editions. Start with SR4A calculations. Where you have calculated IP for a character, rename that to Actions. Your character now has a number of actions in every 3 second combat turn. There are three movement passes (1 per second) every combat turn. Everyone moves on their initiative value of each movement pass.
Another thing we like is how most everyone gets at least two actions in SR5. This greatly reduces the disparity between the fast & the slow. To that end, anyone without any enhancement that provides a 2+ passes/actions (magic/cyber, bio, matrix... anything) can take a -2dp penalty to their initiative roll for a second action. A hard limit of 4 physical passes & 5 matrix passes.

You earn actions on your initiative value as determined by the following timings:
Movement Pass 1:
- Those with 1+ actions earn an action on their initiative value.
- Those with 5 actions earn an end of round action.
Movement Pass 2:
- Those with 2+ actions earn an action on their initiative value.
- Those with 4+ actions earn an end of round action.
Movement Pass 3:
- Those with 3+ actions earn an action on their initiative value.

Any action may be held until their next action is earned. Any unused action, is lost when a new action is earned. An action may be held across combat turns.

Movement is now expressed as each second of movement, 3 times per combat turn. This makes using miniatures consistent as well.

MOVEMENT
Each movement pass, all characters declare their movement & actions (except end of round actions), starting with the lowest initiative value. Held characters declare after non-held characters. Initiative is then resolved, counting down from the highest initiative value + 1 (to allow held characters to start the pass). Held players may act on any value of their choosing. If two characters act on the same initiative value, it is effectively considered simultaneous.

Walking: Walking is defined as leisurely moving by walking. Walking insures no penalties to actions.
Running: Running is effectively jogging. It incurs the standard penalty of -2dp to ranged combat. Other penalties assessed by GM judgment call.
Sprinting: Sprinting is all out. Effective ranged combat is not capable when sprinting. Characters can use the Running Skill to increase movement. Sprinting limit = Running Skill +1. Ergo, characters who are defaulting can still get a success.

Reminder [SR4A, 136]: The game master may apply modifiers for various types of terrain (slippery, rocky, and so on) and other conditions.
Race/Base Rate Per Second/Walk/Run/Sprint/Sprint per Hit
Human,Elf,Ork/1.5m/3m/6m/+1.0m
Dwarf/1.0m/2m/4m/+0.5m
Troll/2.5m/5m/9m/+1.5m

We also play Earthdawn and really like the declaration phase, before resolution. It gives a little more umpf to both higher initiative values and held actions. We have added that into initiative & action resolution.

RESOLVING COMBAT/ACTIONS
1. Roll Initiative: See Initiative, above.
2. Begin Movement Pass:
- A. Declare Movement & Actions: Lowest initiative to highest, then held characters (also lowest to highest initiative value).
- B. Resolve Movement & Actions: Highest to Lowest value. One attack, per character, per action.
3. End Movement Pass: (repeat steps 2-3 for movement passes #1-3)
4. End of Combat Turn:

YMMV, but one thing I dislike about the 4th initiative system is the disconnect between reaction speed and IPs. You know, INT + REA 1, put in wires 2 and he still has three IPs. Giving (unaugmented) Slow-Mo Shlomo the ability to become even slower in exchange for an extra IP obviously does not help that...

I'll second that it doesn't make sense. I actually read it as -2 dp to their actions for the initiative round, which made more sense to me. Sure you can hurry up and do multiple things, but you're more likely to screw up if you do.

I'm a big fan of everyone declare their actions and then resolve them. Speeds the game up and causes less second guessing.

Have you actually changed any of the uses of edge or just how much a character has?

What other rules do you have cooked up?

I'm not especially happy about that either, but I want a system that works with miniatures (breaks movement out into the consistent chunks). Seeing that the adding of dice in SR5 is not completely consistent, actions to reaction, any suggestions?

There are a few tweaks if you compare SR4A and SR5 to the above.

I'll post up several more that we are working through.

GRENADES
Grenades all dissipate. For example, Neurostun does 10S, -1/m.
Throwing a grenade is Thrown Weapons + Agility[Accuracy](3).
Shooting a grenade is Heavy Weapons + Agility[Accuracy](3).
Use scatter tables from SR5 pg182.
Detonators
Timer: Once armed, the grenade detonates after a set time has elapsed. Default is 3 seconds, meaning the grenade detonates at the same movement pass number, same initiative value of the next combat turn. (Real world grenades bake 4-6 seconds)
Motion Sensor: After traveling 5m, the grenade is armed. Once the grenade stops, bounces or changes direction, it immediately detonates.
Wireless Link: After traveling 5m, the grenade is armed. It then explodes when it reaches its target or when triggered. It can be set to explode after traveling a set distance, upon reaching a target (direct hit or “7” on a scatter) or on a subsequent pass using a free action.

AREA EFFECT DEFENSE
If the character is not surprised and holding action, they may take their movement/action with no penalty. If the character will earn an action this pass and declared an action that would move them to lesser effect, they may take an interrupt and sacrifice their action for preemptive movement to dive for cover. If the character will earn no actions this pass, it is now simply a matter of a soak test.

That's still an awful lot for one attribute to do. My suggestion would be to split it up, so you can do one of the following

• Preemptively add 3 dice to your pool (prevents scaling as Edge increases) and apply Rule of 6
  
  OR
  
  
• Ignore limits

That would prevent some of the more egregious abuses I've seen.

I thought about that, but given that we also limit the amount of edge, I'm good with it as posted. I would agree though, an edge of 8 and this is crazy powerful.

Yeah, Xd6+Y decidedly does not fit into the rest of the system and brings its own issues (2 passes are standard fare, 3 are nowhere near guaranteed). But in the end, I think this system simply produces better results than anything (that I can think of) more consistent with the rest...I have very little experience with using miniatures, but IMO that still applies



What happens when the grenade shoots past the target? Does it explode once it reaches it?


Sorry, but huh? Does that talk about when the action happens before the explosion?


PS: If you are already using miniatures, thought about using that "deviation dice" from a GW dice cube for determining scatter?

I just need to spend more time brainstorming this.
I edited your quote of me to be complete. If you look at the scatter table, only a result of "7" passes over the target. We see that as triggering the detonation as it "reached" the target. All other bounce results require a trigger action on the character's next action.
Yes. Ergo, a "holding" character may move out away from the blast target as their action, with the blast being assessed after their movement.
Those are cool. I'm not opposed to those if we have them.

Right now, actions are capped at 4 physical/5 matrix with your average person getting one action every 3 seconds. So, taking this discrepancy into account and the issue of passes not being directly linked to reaction and thinking about the different ways the dice are calculated, I came up with a thought:

Roll initiative in dice (like SR4), but add the values (like SR5).
Joe Average (initiative = 6) gets an initiative roll: 6 - 36
Runner (initiative = 12) gets an initiative roll: 12 - 72
Prime Runner (Initiative = 18) gets an initiative roll: 18 - 108

Now we have a spread. Now we need a relatively simple way to distribute the actions across 3 seconds, that gives the top end more actions and the bottom end the ability to act without waiting for the top end to get a bunch of actions. I tossed out all preconceptions. I know I want the bottom end to get more actions in relation to the upper end, but I also like it to evenly distribute across 3 seconds... That means I'm willing to consider a top end of 6 actions per turn; up to 2 per second. Six actions are nearly impossible and only possible to the most highly augmented characters (or with generous spending of edge).

1) So, roll initiative value in dice, add results.
2) If init 101+ then gain end of round action (6th action) on pass #1. Subtract 20.
3) If init 81+ then gain end of round action (5th action) on pass #2. Subtract 20.
4) If init 61+ then gain end of round action (4th action) on pass #3. Subtract 20.

At this point, we are at a range of 6-60 (counting 1-60), giving us a spread of 20/second, but still lacking distribution of action for slower characters. Several ways to work at this point, but I think I'd like to figure an initiative value and number of passes... Divide by 20, round up for the number of actions. Divide by 3 (round up, for consistency) for initiative value (1-20).

Alternate Initiative
1) So, roll initiative attribute in dice, add results.
2) If init 101+ then gain end of round action (6th action) on pass #1. Subtract 20.
3) If init 81+ then gain end of round action (5th action) on pass #2. Subtract 20.
4) If init 61+ then gain end of round action (4th action) on pass #3. Subtract 20.
5) Divide by 20 (round up) for the number of actions.
6) Divide by 3 (round up) for initiative value (which will be 1-20).

Joe Average (initiative = 6) average init = 21
Runner (initiative = 12) average init = 42
Prime Runner (Initiative = 18) average init = 63

On average most people will have about 2 actions, max 2.
The "Runner" will usually get 3, max 4.
The maxed "Prime Runner" usually gets 4, maxed at a very rare 6.

The expansion of contact ratings and skill ranks to 12 gives more diversity and room for starting characters to grow. Unchecked, those increases can be disruptive to the game, requiring limits to balance them.

CONTACTS
Connection ratings 1-12, as per SR5 pg387.

SKILLS
Skill ranks for all skills now range from 1-12. This does not affect existing starting limits.

LIMITS
Limits are a restriction on the number of net hits that apply to any success test.
- Physical: ( ( Strength x 2 ) + Body + Reaction ) / 3
- Mental: ( ( Logic x 2 ) + Intuition + Willpower ) / 3
- Social: ( ( Charisma x 2 ) + Willpower + Essence ) / 3
- Astral: Equal to your mental or social limit (select the higher).
- Sorcery: The force of a spell.
- Accuracy: As per weapon used, modified by features, abilities and conditions.
- Matrix: TBD, with the matrix design.

ARMOR
All armor is converted to a single armor value = SR4A ballistic value x 1.5 (round up).

WEAPONS
Generally, damage = 1.5. Accuracy is variable. For simplicity, use SR5 weapon tables. For weapons that do not currently exist in SR5, deal with them 1:1 until a master table is created or the weapons book comes out.

AMMUNITION
Use SR5 table.

I really like the changes to stick-n-shock.

SHOTGUNS
Use SR5 choke settings, SR5 pg 180

All in all, I think the amount of SR5 that is considered an improvement over SR4 speaks volumes to SR5. Edge, initiative, breakdown of movement and passes obviously get some modified treatment here, but many rules are imported carte blanche.

Of course, defending in combat, magic and matrix have yet to be addressed as well as the white elephant (Technomancers). I think defending in combat will resemble SR5, but needs a firm decision by our home game on initiative first. I think magic with take a few rules and keep a few. Matrix (and Technomancers) is big. I really like noise, but one of the guys in our home game really hates GOD/DemiGod and we all think Ownership is a poorly thought out, broken mechanic. My gut says there will be a base of SR4 matrix with feature enhancements from SR5. I'll post more as more as more is available.

I'm still in favor of Edge giving a fixed amount of dice, as opposed to a scaling amount. If every time you spend Edge, you get a flat 6 dice, it keeps Edge powerful without having to worry about exponential dice bonuses.

Hmm, not bad. Adding together a lot of dice is obviously not terribly elegant, but the results look good

Agreed. It lacks the level of elegance I would like, but the numbers come out to a place I like a whole lot better.