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Tymeaus Jalynsfein

Jan 17 2014, 03:14 PM

Good Morning Everyone... Had an inquiry today that might be interesting to pursue on the boards. Please read below...
While I can help on this question (and I am sure to have comments and suggestions a plenty), it generally falls outside my normal character concepts and power level at character creation, and I know that there are others who are much better at these kinds of characters than I am (looking at you Neraph

).

Please assist our newest member in his quest. Help us Dumpshock, you are our only hope.

QUOTE (Hustlar)

Hey man, sorry to bother you, but if you could spare a moment of your time to help me out with a 4e build I'd be much obliged. I figure this is a tad random as I kind of just looked for a few someones with a good number of posts when it came to answering questions and also seemed recently active so I understand if this isn't something you do or care to help with and if so then thanks anyways. Basically I'm totally new to the SR system, mostly being used to d20 systems and mainly dnd 3.5, and a friend of mine is getting ready to start up a SR 4e campaign in the next week and a half. While I must say that having had little experience with the world prior to the past few days, it has me very interested and excited if somewhat overwhelmed. The group of players tends to be somewhat "tryhard" --though in a way that's far more fun and endearing than annoying-- and the GM is not the kind to pull punches, so I'd like to show up with an interesting (by way of backstory) that also happens to be mechanically sound lol. So anyways I'm looking to build a 4e summoner focused magician with as far as I can tell totally normal character creation rules of 400 BP, normal limits, and all 4e material allowed.

I'm just struggling somewhat with what is a very different system than I am used to and while this forum seems to be a great resource for SR in general, I am baffled in terms of how to find any good build type materials for such a character although I know they must be out there. So far all I know for sure is that I think I'd like to go with a custom CHA tradition (so that I can have more spirits bound?), am picking up the +4 power focus with the restricted gear quality (seems to be the one universal thing people suggest), have a mentor spirit (not sure what one I should pick, not allowed to make one up), am going to play an elf, and would like to go with guardian/oracle/task spirts and possibly a possession based tradition. I'm really not sure how much I should invest in stats beyond knowing I want to soft cap magic, cha, and willpower and I'd also love if someone could help shed some light on what spells I should start off with and how in the world I Ally spirits work/how good are they. Oh and now that I think of it, some guidance when it comes to if I should have my character possessed, or make golems, or just nix possession and go with materialization would be amazing as it seems like a very important decision, but one that just looking a book ill prepares me for.

The group so far is a Face/stealth dryad adpet who seems to love monofilament whips, a human russian "heavy weapons" type mainly going with explosives/grenade launchers/some drones, a dwarf street sam with guns guns guns!, and another dwarf self titled as a "skill monkey". I had planned on doing some face work myself, but I don't think it's much worth having two and I doubt I can hold up against a Dryad in anything except intimidate. Oh and qualities-wise I am going magician, restricted gear, mentor spirit, and Made Man out of RC. I like the flavor of it and intend for my character really be a mafioso type, but how good is it mechanically and the is the fencing aspect of it any better than just spending some BP on a fence contact? I'm not quite sure... Anyways I know that's a lot and I'm kind of all over the place, but any advice you have to offer or just point me in the direction of would be great! Thanks for your time and effort in helping out a noob, -Hust

Thanks for all the Help.

Ryu

Jan 18 2014, 12:24 PM

- If you are only concerned with the number of spirits, CHA 5 will work. The main work can be handled by a summoned spirit. I´d go higher for the drain resistance dice (not liking investment into willpower) and social skill pools. If I used the BP generation system and didn´t want to play an ork. The power focus is expensive and not exactly needed unless you want to min/max.

- A good tradition is natural for your chars background, a good mentor spirits supports your main trick.
-- Your GM should not allow a custom tradition with guardian/oracle/task spirits, it´s quite enough that Vodoo can provide all skills. Bring spare weapons if you are allowed materializing guardians.
-- From the official traditions I´d suggest Black Magic (or Christian Theurgy if your group can stomach it), as it fits the Mafia angle.
-- What kind of magic do you like? Manipulation has both the mind-over-matter stuff like levitation and mind-over-mind like control thoughts, combat is obvious, Health can provide cheap attribute boni, Detection provides Intel the GM does not want in player hands, Illusions are great for disguise/hiding. Choose accordingly. Usual suspects include: Mana Bolt, Levitate, Heal, Fashion (might be us), Improved Invisibility, some area combat spell.

- I´d not enter the Mafia as Made Man. Sorry for the mechanical argument:
-- Made Man costs 10 BP, provides a Group Contact worth 12 BP and costs 30 hrs/week (a "12.5" BP day job without earnings). The fringe benefits should be available from any serious criminal group contact with loyality 4.
-- Get instead: Day Job (provides 10 BP, "small goods fence" or something), earn 2500k¥/Month. Offset with 20 BP Syndicate Group Contact to arrive at the same BP cost, but less time requirement, more money, and better friends (GM might slap you for maxxing out at Connection 14/Loyality 6).

- Possession or Materialization, an old question. I favour the later for the greater flexibility; the former provides more total power while the physical body is not a problem. Hint: Steel Golems are heavy chunks of metal, anyone prepared to detect weapons will find them, and know what they are.

Glyph

Jan 18 2014, 10:05 PM

Possession traditions can be used three ways: buff yourself (only works for builds designed for that - a high Charisma elf mage with a rating: 4 power focus will already be spread pretty thin), buff others (make your min/maxed teammates even scarier - but that will kind of reduce you to a support character, which is fine if you don't mind that role), or buff prepared vessels or random pedestrians/security guards to have minions. Voodoo is the only Charisma-based possession tradition, and it has fluff about treating the LOA with a lot of respect.

Materialized spirits are stuck in the third role (minions), but their mobility makes them very good for this role. There are a good number of different Charisma-based traditions.

For mentor spirits, obviously the best ones for a summoner would either be one that gives +2 to summoning a certain type of spirit (lots of them), or +2 for banishing, or binding.

Neraph

Jan 19 2014, 01:07 AM

Don't go Magician - go Mystic Adept. It allows a lot more flexibility and potential for growth later.

Black Magic tradition would do well enough for you. You can get possession spirits other ways.

Are you set on an Elf? An eagle shifter gives you significantly better stats plus regeneration. Infected give you the most power by far, but most people don't like them. In any event, don't go above Cha 4, just make sure you take Improved Attribute (Charisma) and Improved Attribute (Willpower) as spells. Also, don't take sustaining foci, save up a handful of karma for long-term binding a spirit with those spells if you need to. Between Psyche and knowing your dicepools you can even just work around them (I have worked around penalties from sustaining 4-6 spells at a time).

I don't do mentor spirits because usually they don't give me enough of a bonus. I also usually don't build with a focus because of the BP costs.

I can go on with more, but I'd prefer to talk directly and make sure my services are more correctly tailored to the recipient.

Midas

Jan 25 2014, 11:00 AM

Long time.

I always recommend the Home Ground PQ for conjurers. A nice extra 2 dice for your summoning/binding sessions might come in handier than a group contact. The home ground could be a particular neigbourhood, to try and stay close to his theme of Made Man, perhaps a mafia part of town. Spirit Bane could be a good NQ, as it plays to your strengths and again can add depth to the character (why does that type of spirit hate him?).

Summoning 6, Binding 4, no need for Banishing unless you really want to take the group for flavour. High CHA, so a few ranks in the Influence group can give you enough to talk your way out of a fix, even if the dryad will play main fiddle for most of the social stuff.

For tradition and Mentor Spirit, choose the ones that gives the right flavour and feel to the direction of the summoner you want to play. I would suggest one with a bonus to summoning xx spirits to give you a speciality. Also, a tradition with Spirits of Man for the Innate Spell power can be a useful card to play.

For spells, Heal is definitely a good one, and Stunblast for disrupting opposition spirits. Mob Mood could be good for flavour and for rousing a rabble to act as a diversion. Slay Spirit (perfectly legal as it is listed as an example in the book) can disrupt any opposing spirit should it get out of hand, although you might want to ask your GM if he would consider the use of such a spell as spirit abuse or not. Astral Window can help scouting missions, and spirits with many other detection spells sustained on them can act as good scouts. As Neraph said, Increase CHA and WIL can be good for boosting your drain stats.

The OP seems dead set oon Elf for the CHA, and that might seem a bit of a no-brainer, but I also think a CHA 5 human with soft-maxed Edge is a viable alternative.

I have not had much experience with possession based traditions and their potential abuses, so leave any discussion on that to others.

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