So here I am, a guy who has only played D&D his whole life. He's heard of Shadowrun many times, and liked the concept a great deal. Now it's the summer before he goes off to college and he's looking to do a handful of one or two shot adventures with his friends. What does he need to do, other than buy the core rulebook and a couple premade adventures? Any hangups in particular he should watch out for? Specific adventures?
Thanks!
Full Version: New Guy
watch out for the rigging rules, and the matrix rules; they're both notoriously confusing for first-time players. once you've figured out the matrix rules, they're not so bad; the rigger rules are probably the same, but i haven't mastered 'em.
Try not to be put off too much by the magic rules though. Magic is what separates Shadowrun from cyberpunk and is a very interesting (and powerful) aspect of the game.
If you're going to be GMing and someone in the group is awakened then don't underestimate the importance of warding buildings and having awakened guards ETC. Likewise if you have awakened defense then you might want to advise the players to have a magical member (or two, or more if you must) of the team.
If you're going to be GMing and someone in the group is awakened then don't underestimate the importance of warding buildings and having awakened guards ETC. Likewise if you have awakened defense then you might want to advise the players to have a magical member (or two, or more if you must) of the team.
Get the core rulebook and pick up First Run (if you can get it for cheap, it's even better). Run Food Fight and possibly the others if you/he wants to. Alternatively, you can get the free stuff from www.shadowrunrpg.com and use that as the crash course in SR. Try to steer clear of the core addon books (Man and Machine, Cannon Companion, Magic in the Shadows, Rigger 3, Matrix) until you're familiar with the basics. Then go about the business of learning new rules.
As an aside, it's hard to run Riggers without Rigger 3 and it's somewhat hard to run deckers without Matrix.
You might try your used bookstore for the SR novels, as well. I hadn't bothered with them, but I picked up a few last week and just finished the first one (Never Deal With a Dragon). While they're not the best literary works I've ever scene, a lot of the key SR themes get covered in a way that makes them stand out well.
As an aside, it's hard to run Riggers without Rigger 3 and it's somewhat hard to run deckers without Matrix.
You might try your used bookstore for the SR novels, as well. I hadn't bothered with them, but I picked up a few last week and just finished the first one (Never Deal With a Dragon). While they're not the best literary works I've ever scene, a lot of the key SR themes get covered in a way that makes them stand out well.
Definately Food Fight!!
And for the love of Ghost, DON'T RUN SUPERNOVA!!
As far as rules, if you've never played before you should look over the rules for riggers and deckers. If you don't get it, tell people they can't play one. Period. It happens all the time.
On the other hand, if you do manage to get it (I barely do) its not that its difficult to play one of these characters w/o the add on books, its that it is difficult to play a highly effective decker or rigger. But since you, as a GM, probably won't be throwing any of the really tricky stuff at your players, it should be a good learning experience for all.
When it comes to awakends, for beginers wards may be a little much. It all depends on what magic level you want to set. If wards are everywhere, your mages and shamans may get frustrated. Simple solution: more sec mages and spirits, less wards. It'll making sneaking around harder but its helps to set a "magicy" tone early on. (As opposed to there just being "force fields" everywhere)
And for the love of Ghost, DON'T RUN SUPERNOVA!!
As far as rules, if you've never played before you should look over the rules for riggers and deckers. If you don't get it, tell people they can't play one. Period. It happens all the time.
On the other hand, if you do manage to get it (I barely do) its not that its difficult to play one of these characters w/o the add on books, its that it is difficult to play a highly effective decker or rigger. But since you, as a GM, probably won't be throwing any of the really tricky stuff at your players, it should be a good learning experience for all.
When it comes to awakends, for beginers wards may be a little much. It all depends on what magic level you want to set. If wards are everywhere, your mages and shamans may get frustrated. Simple solution: more sec mages and spirits, less wards. It'll making sneaking around harder but its helps to set a "magicy" tone early on. (As opposed to there just being "force fields" everywhere)
Another side note, it's perfectly okay to set limits on your group such as "no more than 1 mage and 1 adept" or the like. Encourage the PCs to build their characters as a team to help playability if nothing else.
In general, an SR team should have:
In general, an SR team should have:
- Muscle (Street sammies, mercs, etc)
- Transport (someone with a car and a drive skill or a rigger)
- Social skills (a face, generally)
- Contacts (also a face, generally)
- Matrix coverage (decker or decker contact)
- Magical support (full mage or shaman)
In D&D the system is being geared towards four players and a DM. How many runners are in a standard group? Sounds more like six, am I right?
I think you can get away with only four, although six allows for more specializing. As long as each character can do more than just one thing an effective team doesn' t have to be a large one.
TinkerGnome covered the requirements. Mages with high Charisma (for Conjuring) can do the work of a Face archetype, as can Deckers in some cases. Unless there isn't going to be much combat, someone should be really good at killing. Street Samurai and Physical Adepts fill this role well, sams often specialized toward guns and adepts often toward melee combat. Some people make Riggers that can also deck. Some GMs don't like having to deal with the Matrix at the same time as the "real world" so deckers are NPCs in those groups.
TinkerGnome covered the requirements. Mages with high Charisma (for Conjuring) can do the work of a Face archetype, as can Deckers in some cases. Unless there isn't going to be much combat, someone should be really good at killing. Street Samurai and Physical Adepts fill this role well, sams often specialized toward guns and adepts often toward melee combat. Some people make Riggers that can also deck. Some GMs don't like having to deal with the Matrix at the same time as the "real world" so deckers are NPCs in those groups.
| QUOTE |
| Any hangups in particular he should watch out for? |
Well there's weird thing about Initiative as it relates to melee combat 
(sorry, I couldn't resist). A lot of things in the rules make no sense. If your group isn't going to play a lot of Shadowrun, don't bother with house rules and don't think about it. Check the erratta though. Have fun.
(sorry, I couldn't resist). A lot of things in the rules make no sense. If your group isn't going to play a lot of Shadowrun, don't bother with house rules and don't think about it. Check the erratta though. Have fun.
It varies widely. I've rarely played in a group larger than 6. Although I'd hardly say it's geared towards 4 players, around 4 players is a good group size for many games. More players in shadowrun just means you'll have more overlaps or people can specialise more.
I'm not sure how much you've read about the SR system, but one big difference between characters in SR and characters in D&D is that characters in D&D have character classes. In SR you buy what you can. There's nothing to say that the mage can't be atheletic and good at handling an assault rifle. Muscle types can learn technical skills and hack computer systems on the side just as easily as they could learn to use a rocket launcher (albeit a good hacking deck is far more expencive than a rocket launcher).
I'm not sure how much you've read about the SR system, but one big difference between characters in SR and characters in D&D is that characters in D&D have character classes. In SR you buy what you can. There's nothing to say that the mage can't be atheletic and good at handling an assault rifle. Muscle types can learn technical skills and hack computer systems on the side just as easily as they could learn to use a rocket launcher (albeit a good hacking deck is far more expencive than a rocket launcher).
You could cover all your bases with 3 by, eg:
* Merc with Car and Car skill
* Face with Decker contact (among others)
* Mage/Shaman
And you can run without magic/muscle/social skills depending on the style of your game. The game I am currently in consists of a Decker (me), a gun bunny, and a total amnesiac who allowed the GM to make his character, but we haven't figured out yet, and appears to have Leadership/Small Unit Tactics.
Basically it's up to the GM to make the adventures suitable to the group. It makes sense that in the shadowrun universe if a runner team has a focus on combat skills they will be hired to take on combat jobs. Same with Magic, Social, Decking, etc. Having a truly diverse team allows you to take on more varied jobs, but that probably isn't a factor if you are just looking to run a few one-offs
* Merc with Car and Car skill
* Face with Decker contact (among others)
* Mage/Shaman
And you can run without magic/muscle/social skills depending on the style of your game. The game I am currently in consists of a Decker (me), a gun bunny, and a total amnesiac who allowed the GM to make his character, but we haven't figured out yet, and appears to have Leadership/Small Unit Tactics.
Basically it's up to the GM to make the adventures suitable to the group. It makes sense that in the shadowrun universe if a runner team has a focus on combat skills they will be hired to take on combat jobs. Same with Magic, Social, Decking, etc. Having a truly diverse team allows you to take on more varied jobs, but that probably isn't a factor if you are just looking to run a few one-offs
Other vast differences between SR & "typical" D&D:
- Combat in SR is generally the very last resort.
- Combat in SR is highly lethal.
- Getting hit in SR can result in very long, very expensive healing times
- Opposition in SR is not necessarily scaled to the PCs. It's possible that the PCs can run into a security system or team that will kill them to a man with little effort.
- Combats in SR happen FAST. A good street sam can take out an entire street gang in under ten seconds.
- SR Snipers are deadly. A round to the back of the skull can take out the aforementioned sam in < 1 second.
- SR character generation is an order of magniture longer than D&D. It can literally take weeks.
- SR characters start out a lot stronger than D&D characters. There is no SR equivalent to a "kobold cave". Unless you count Food Fight, which really just lets you learn the rules.
So SR involves a lot more recon action, then highly orchestrated surgical strikes to dodge security, then something goes wrong and you grab the computer chip and get the hell out of there, hoping to dodge the cops and robots before a well thrown grenade kills you all? 
I think you'll do fine
I'll be away for a few days, but if you need any info on metaplot and history, give my site a gander. I can get back to you on specific questions when I return.
This is just personal opinion, as your mileage may vary, YMMV, but I forego decking or any Matrix characters unless I'm running an entire Matrix campaign. Decking, hacking whatever, tends to take away from the action in a way that only allows one character to have fun (the decker) or everyone else to have fun (the decker sitting around waiting). Not to mention, the rules are pretty complicated.
If you think you've got the technique down, by all means, go ahead, but I warn you it's pretty rough.
If you think you've got the technique down, by all means, go ahead, but I warn you it's pretty rough.
For the most part a starting level SR character is about as good as a level 10 D&D character... but they tend to just branch out from there...
-The Eggman
-The Eggman
| QUOTE (Eltern) |
| So SR involves a lot more recon action, then highly orchestrated surgical strikes to dodge security, then something goes wrong and you grab the computer chip and get the hell out of there, hoping to dodge the cops and robots before a well thrown grenade kills you all? |
You should copywrite that and sell it to Fanpro for free books. All you need to do is add in some quotation marks, italicize the whole sha-bang, and toss in a pic of a Troll. Voila!
Leave decking and rigging out of your first attempts at Shadowrun. Have a decker contact for the group or something. Unless you're really into it and you can figure out the rules (the Idiot's Guide to Decking thread on here is a perfect start after you read through the decking rules a few times).
Shadowrun can be played with as little as two PCs if you scale the adventure properly, but you generally do best with 3 players -- Two muscle-types and one magic-type, or one muscle-type, one talky-type (face/detective), and one magic-type. Four is IMHO the best number. Two muscle-types (a samurai and an adept or two samurai), a magic-type, and a face/detective or a face/decker (it can be done). It also depends on what kind of games you want to run.
However, that's just for a general game. If you're playing a specific type of game, that can all change radically. A mystery-based game where there's not much combat works better with a decker and a face/detective in your group while the muscle just sits and watches. A gang-based game is going to bore a decker or a face to tears while the muscle is out busting heads. But no matter what type of game you run, a magic user is almost always needed.
BTW, I think Supernova from the First Run game is great as a first run if you just change the ending...(spoilered for those who haven't played it yet)
Most of all, have fun!
The Abstruse One
Shadowrun can be played with as little as two PCs if you scale the adventure properly, but you generally do best with 3 players -- Two muscle-types and one magic-type, or one muscle-type, one talky-type (face/detective), and one magic-type. Four is IMHO the best number. Two muscle-types (a samurai and an adept or two samurai), a magic-type, and a face/detective or a face/decker (it can be done). It also depends on what kind of games you want to run.
However, that's just for a general game. If you're playing a specific type of game, that can all change radically. A mystery-based game where there's not much combat works better with a decker and a face/detective in your group while the muscle just sits and watches. A gang-based game is going to bore a decker or a face to tears while the muscle is out busting heads. But no matter what type of game you run, a magic user is almost always needed.
BTW, I think Supernova from the First Run game is great as a first run if you just change the ending...(spoilered for those who haven't played it yet)
[ Spoiler ]
Most of all, have fun!
The Abstruse One
| QUOTE (TinkerGnome) |
In general, an SR team should have:
|
I'm working on that...
| QUOTE (TinkerGnome) |
| SR character generation is an order of magniture longer than D&D. It can literally take weeks. |
Not if you have NSRCG
| QUOTE (Eltern) |
| So SR involves a lot more recon action, then highly orchestrated surgical strikes to dodge security, then something goes wrong and you grab the computer chip and get the hell out of there, hoping to dodge the cops and robots before a well thrown grenade kills you all? |
You're a quick learner, so you should do fine.
| QUOTE (simonw2000) | ||
Not if you have NSRCG |
Heh, NSRCG does little for background writing or deciding how you're going to get 20 implants into 5.99 essence
Particularly when you've got 200k in gear to add.
NSRCG is a bad thing for a new player IMO. You should learn how to create a character the old fashioned way that way you know why the program does what it does. But do expect to spend a good couple of hours making your first character, flipping back and forth between pages constantly.
But yeah, in Shadowrun, if you have to draw your gun you've screwed up 95% of the time. Of course, the game wouldn't be nearly as fun if the players didn't screw up
The Abstruse One
But yeah, in Shadowrun, if you have to draw your gun you've screwed up 95% of the time. Of course, the game wouldn't be nearly as fun if the players didn't screw up
The Abstruse One
can i move in with you abstruse???
i can't find me a group that wants to do anything but draw their weapons. tonights session was just an extreme munchie excercise so it's off to the begging for players mode again.
but personally, i use nsrcg for all my implants and gear. it would be good for a beginning character, just deselect the appropriate books. although, i do admit, i'd make my first 2 or 3 with the books.
i can't find me a group that wants to do anything but draw their weapons. tonights session was just an extreme munchie excercise so it's off to the begging for players mode again.
but personally, i use nsrcg for all my implants and gear. it would be good for a beginning character, just deselect the appropriate books. although, i do admit, i'd make my first 2 or 3 with the books.
If I had absolutely nothing better to do, I could slam out a character in two hours or so: background and everything. Granted, s/he might not be 'optimized' but they'd be in good shape.
Add in an extra thirty minutes or so if I'm making a mage...Spell choosing takes me a little longer.
Course, YMMV. I've just had an obscene background in roleplaying.
Add in an extra thirty minutes or so if I'm making a mage...Spell choosing takes me a little longer.
Course, YMMV. I've just had an obscene background in roleplaying.
about 20 minutes with the cg. around 6-8 hours without. now i am far to poor to actually own any books, so i deal with pdfs. but not too different i imagine. background could take me 10 minutes or 10 days, who knows.
I can do it in an hour and a half without any books and in 30 minutes with them on average (the more nuyen they have, the longer it takes me...plus I like making new types of characters just to try to "figure them out" like a Tir path mage or a Voodooean character, which takes longer as I triple-read the rules involved). I generally come up with a base idea, create the character, then spend however long it takes me to type it up making the background to fit the skills, edges, and flaws I've chosen. But I generally come up with the background while I'm making the character.
But let me just say that my group screws up every single run However, I do make it a point to stress that combat is bad and they're supposed to be SHADOWrunners, emphasis on staying out of the light. That doesn't mean that they never get to fight, as I'll put in encounters where the easiest way out is a fight. I just prefer to give them options where they don't HAVE to go in guns blazing and tracer rounds and fireballs lighting up the night.
The Abstruse One
But let me just say that my group screws up every single run
However, I do make it a point to stress that combat is bad and they're supposed to be SHADOWrunners, emphasis on staying out of the light. That doesn't mean that they never get to fight, as I'll put in encounters where the easiest way out is a fight. I just prefer to give them options where they don't HAVE to go in guns blazing and tracer rounds and fireballs lighting up the night.The Abstruse One
As a recently converted D&D player, my advise to you is to ask them what they want to do with their character - and explain how the rules work for the path they're choosing. The lack of classes in Shadowrun is my favorite part of the system, but if you discribe the steriotypes they may get stuck in the idea that they have to play one of those without even realizing it.
Glad to know I got the basics down This may be my last question: I see a LOT of talk about errata and rules interpretations. Is this because the rules were updated, and the errata is for people with older book versions, or were the rules really THAT convoluted? I enjoy taking complicated mathematical systems and optimizing them to do crazy things, but I'd rather not buy a book that was so poorly written that interpreting it is an official pasttime of the SR fans 
Am I understanding this correctly, or no?
This may be my last question: I see a LOT of talk about errata and rules interpretations. Is this because the rules were updated, and the errata is for people with older book versions, or were the rules really THAT convoluted? I enjoy taking complicated mathematical systems and optimizing them to do crazy things, but I'd rather not buy a book that was so poorly written that interpreting it is an official pasttime of the SR fans Am I understanding this correctly, or no?
Most of the debate is because two people read a somewhat unclear line, have different interpretations, and then spend a long time insulting each other as a means to convince them: "I'm right, you're wrong."
The only times I remember such an argument reaching an agreement is when two posters have been flaming each other up until the point they realized that they were both arguing the same side of the debate.
The only times I remember such an argument reaching an agreement is when two posters have been flaming each other up until the point they realized that they were both arguing the same side of the debate.
Well, the thing about SR that I've noticed in my newbieness is that there is a *lot* to cover. The SR books try to describe the way the world works in far more detail than any D&D setting; D&D mostly glosses over just about everything but combat, while SR tries to concern itself with everything in-between as well. Naturally in the interest of simplification some things don't get described as completely as they should, and so you end up with ambiguities and even outright imbalanced in the rules (the -3 Karma cost for new skills with the Mnemotwink Enhancer, for instance), which need to be corrected.
It's not like D&D is much better, anyway. Heck, the whole D&D 3.5 Edition was originally written in order to correct the many many flaws and inconsistencies within the 3.0 rules. Now the 3.5 Edition already has errata out, and the forums are finding more every day. Fans picking holes in the official rules isn't limited to SR, you know.
It's not like D&D is much better, anyway. Heck, the whole D&D 3.5 Edition was originally written in order to correct the many many flaws and inconsistencies within the 3.0 rules. Now the 3.5 Edition already has errata out, and the forums are finding more every day. Fans picking holes in the official rules isn't limited to SR, you know.
| QUOTE (draco aardvark) |
| As a recently converted D&D player, my advise to you is to ask them what they want to do with their character - and explain how the rules work for the path they're choosing. The lack of classes in Shadowrun is my favorite part of the system, but if you discribe the steriotypes they may get stuck in the idea that they have to play one of those without even realizing it. |
As much as people like to stress how much the class system doesn't exist in SR, you really should start out with the mentality of building your character around some sort of "class", especially with the way the chargen system is built. Without picking one of the more common team player types you stand a very good chance of ending up useless to your team. This is of course unless you know what you're doing, in which case you're probably not starting out.
Also, the way the points and priorities systems are set up specialization is very much encouraged; taking two '6's in skills is generally better than three '4's, when you consider how difficult it is to improve them later. BeCKS does a good job of eliminating this duality between chargen and post-chargen, at the expense of being computationally annoying, but even then it's usually a good idea to specialize, which means picking something to specialize in, which pretty much leads to de facto classes.
It's less about a "class" than a capability. You don't need a rigger, you need a way for the team to get around town. You don't need a combat monster, you need a way for the team to survive a shootout. You don't need a mage, you need a way to counter enemy mages and get astral recon. You don't need a decker, you need a way to circumvent security cameras, etc.
However, I do agree that specialization leads to effectiveness in Shadowrun. Most characters should spend about 50% of their starting skills/resources/attributes/whatever toward a character archetype and branch out with the rest.
However, I do agree that specialization leads to effectiveness in Shadowrun. Most characters should spend about 50% of their starting skills/resources/attributes/whatever toward a character archetype and branch out with the rest.
| QUOTE (draco aardvark) |
| The lack of classes in Shadowrun is my favorite part of the system, but if you discribe the steriotypes they may get stuck in the idea that they have to play one of those without even realizing it. |
That said, there's a down side of not specializing enough. If your mage wants to be almost-a-Face and also-good-with-guns , it can be tricky to have him be a good enough MAGE. Same for a sam, or rigger, or weapons specialist. or any other archetypical role.
"Jack of all trades, master of none" -- in SR, for you to be an asset to a team you need to pick a couple things and be a master of those. You SHOULD have some skills at 5's and 6's. Not all your skills should be 4's.
For combat types, that means you probably want a gun skill (SMGs, I suggest, since AR's only have longer range) that's good. TinkerGnome said it really well, in fact - spend a good portion on your "role in the team", and then branch out.That said, it can be troublesome when you overspecialize. If your character is Mr. Con Artiste Extraordinaire, and can minle with any group of people, and has a charisma of a million (well, 6 to 8
), but can't shoot a gun to save his life . . . well, the drek WILL hit the fan at some point, and he will need to shoot that gun to save his life (or his teammates' lives).Plan for the worst. Your character will not always be able to avoid combat, or set up that nice sniper shot, or mind control that corp guy into doing your bidding.
You CAN take archetypes from the book. We can all make ones that are "better" in many ways (e.g., I think the weapons specialist has waaaay too many weapons skills, not enough social skills and stealth), but almost none of them "suck". Heck - you could probably let your players pick characters from the archetypes and play from there, as a good quick-start.
A character will take life once it has a good background - here's where you can use the numbers from the archetypes but change that backstory a bit, maybe. Dunno. Let your players play with those (unless they want to spend time making a character fomr scratch - it's fun! I do it while driving!
), get a feel for the system, and then let them re-make a new character or something. (Maybe let them transfer over earned karma, even.)
Well, after having read a hearty portion of the "How to totally twink out your character" thread, I'm nervous I don't know if this is just standard munchkin action you find in D&D as well, but I wonder: Is this errata for the core rulebook currently implemented in this printing of the 3rd edition? The 13th printing pretty solid, or not so much?
And, just discovered this smiley:
excellent. Just excellent.
I'll be buying the core rulebook from FFE soon (hope FPR25000 is the latest printing), along with First Run and maybe the Survival of the Fittest set.
Thanks for the help!
I don't know if this is just standard munchkin action you find in D&D as well, but I wonder: Is this errata for the core rulebook currently implemented in this printing of the 3rd edition? The 13th printing pretty solid, or not so much?And, just discovered this smiley:
excellent. Just excellent. I'll be buying the core rulebook from FFE soon (hope FPR25000 is the latest printing), along with First Run and maybe the Survival of the Fittest set.
Thanks for the help!
Eltern, the 13th printing has ALL the SR3 errata already applied to it. It's for us with old books that we need the errata. There are still a few corrections to new printings, but most of the stuff is at least consistent with itself. (Some of us still have printing 1, even though the color pages have all fallen out.)
The munchkin techniques are generally things that are legal, but have such a great benefit for the character (compared to their cost) that they are out of line for many games.
The munchkin techniques are generally things that are legal, but have such a great benefit for the character (compared to their cost) that they are out of line for many games.
| QUOTE (OurTeam) |
| (Some of us still have printing 1, even though the color pages have all fallen out.) |
So true... *sniff* so very true...
I miss you, color pages...
| QUOTE (Eltern) |
| Well, after having read a hearty portion of the "How to totally twink out your character" thread, I'm nervous I don't know if this is just standard munchkin action you find in D&D as well |
Don't let it get to you. Some people just like to point out loopholes, problems, and/or enjoy number crunching to pass the time. I doubt most of the people who point all those crazy rules out would ever consider creating a character around them, at least not to the point of exploting them munchkin-style.
| QUOTE (Eltern) |
| I'll be buying the core rulebook from FFE soon (hope FPR25000 is the latest printing), along with First Run and maybe the Survival of the Fittest set. |
I haven't read or played Survival, but what I've heard is that it's some pretty heavy-hitter type runs. You would likely be better off spending your money on something else at this early stage of the game. While you don't have to purchase the core addon books (Man & Machine, Magic in the Shadows, Cannon Companion, Rigger 3, Matrix), you might consider starting on that or getting the Sprawl Survival Guide (good background material and reading for the way the world works in 2050+) or New Seattle (if you're going to be running in Seattle).
Also, because FFE is an affiliate of Fanpro, I won't advise you not to order from them. I will state that I generally order my stuff from Stiggybaby's. They have some of the older FASA modules, though you probably don't want to pick them up until you're comfortable enough with the rules to convert 1st and 2nd edition stuff into 3rd edition.
On the issue of twinking... it'll happen. The GM will learn to deal with it (hopefully without killing the rest of the party) and the players as well
A good character is one who is well rounded, not one who is twinked. Which is something my sammie learned when the GM decided that a blizzard during the run would be fun and his brilliant attempt to drive through it without a car skill got hairy.
Eesh. SotF... yes. Very definitely a heavy-hitters module. It's a wonderful module to end a campaign on, or as the transition point between an upper-level and a true high-powered campaign. Not a good starting place, not at all.
~J
~J
From my newbie stance, I'd go with Sprawl Survival Guide. One of the things it has in there is a point-based system for lifestyles, something I think adds a lot to the background of the game. Reading through something like that really emphasizes how different SR is from D&D, both in implied setting and the rules' coverage of day-to-day life. I mean, does D&D ever say *anything* about how the characters live from day to day, other than that book about building castles?
Maybe it's just a personal issue, but after First Run I wouldn't suggest getting any more module-stype books. Maybe it's just a thing of mine, but whenever I run games I like to make up everything--setting, plot, NPCs, the whole ten yards--all on my own, and books like that make me feel straightjacketed.
As to the twinkiness, you should check out the Character Optimization Board. Now *those* guys are nuts!
Maybe it's just a personal issue, but after First Run I wouldn't suggest getting any more module-stype books. Maybe it's just a thing of mine, but whenever I run games I like to make up everything--setting, plot, NPCs, the whole ten yards--all on my own, and books like that make me feel straightjacketed.
As to the twinkiness, you should check out the Character Optimization Board. Now *those* guys are nuts!
Not only is SotF a heavy-hitters game, it also contains a lot of advanced magic and Matrix rules from the advanced sourcebooks, and it's VERY important for the players to know about the background of the Shadowrun world before playing that game. Otherwise, you're going to be spending a lot of time explaining who all the different NPCs are even though they're slowly detailed in several other sourcebooks.
For a first adventure (other than First Run), I'd suggest converting some of the old 1st Ed adventures, like Dreamchipper or Mercurial. They're usually pretty straight-forward, but you can pretty much only use them for plot. I've worked out an update of Mercurial to 3rd Ed. with a few extras (handouts and stuff to print out that add to the adventure), plus I assembled an mp3 "concert" for Maria Mercurial...but I'm wary about releasing it because, even though you still need the book to run the adventure, it's still giving away a nice little chunk of FASA's (therefore now WizKids') intellectual property, so I don't know if I can legally release it...
The Abstruse One
For a first adventure (other than First Run), I'd suggest converting some of the old 1st Ed adventures, like Dreamchipper or Mercurial. They're usually pretty straight-forward, but you can pretty much only use them for plot. I've worked out an update of Mercurial to 3rd Ed. with a few extras (handouts and stuff to print out that add to the adventure), plus I assembled an mp3 "concert" for Maria Mercurial...but I'm wary about releasing it because, even though you still need the book to run the adventure, it's still giving away a nice little chunk of FASA's (therefore now WizKids') intellectual property, so I don't know if I can legally release it...
The Abstruse One
I'd actually be interested in know what your lineup for the Mercurial concert was. I've done similar stuff (for D&D, of all things) and I'm curious how you represented her.
*whistles* yeah... SotF is scary stuff. Its still calling from my local gaming shack... it says "Death.... loads of death..."
There are two very clear and very distinct classes within shadowrun, and as a result the first question I ask is with that class distinction in mind.
"Do you want to be magical, or not magical?"
After that, the rest is pretty much up in the air, with the exception of being an Adept versus being a spell caster.
"Do you want to be magical, or not magical?"
After that, the rest is pretty much up in the air, with the exception of being an Adept versus being a spell caster.
Here's a question I was going to wait until I had the rules in front of me to figure out, but I guess I can just ask:
In D&D, classes have levels. Challenges, mainly monsters and traps, have Challenge Ratings assigned to them. A GM can then look at his party's level, say 4, find a critter with CR 4, and run it, knowing he has an appropriately balanced encounter. If he wants to make it tougher or easier, use higher or lower CRs.
Is there such a system at all in Shadowrun? It seems as you do stuff you get
and karma, and both make you more awesome than you already were, but there's nothing to quickly and easily mathematically gauge challenges vs. your power level, is there? Was looking at some little PDF adventures and didn't see anything.
It would seem to be much more difficult to GM, trying to figure out if your players are going to be walking on air or being plastered.
Note: I do realize that just about everything is deadly in Shadowrun. Everything can kill you, easily, and planning/recon are what make the runs successful. However, I wouldn't know if a team could get by a hallway with X cameras of V variety, B security devices/traps, C locks, etc. without having played for a VERY long time, I would think.
In D&D, classes have levels. Challenges, mainly monsters and traps, have Challenge Ratings assigned to them. A GM can then look at his party's level, say 4, find a critter with CR 4, and run it, knowing he has an appropriately balanced encounter. If he wants to make it tougher or easier, use higher or lower CRs.
Is there such a system at all in Shadowrun? It seems as you do stuff you get
and karma, and both make you more awesome than you already were, but there's nothing to quickly and easily mathematically gauge challenges vs. your power level, is there? Was looking at some little PDF adventures and didn't see anything.It would seem to be much more difficult to GM, trying to figure out if your players are going to be walking on air or being plastered.
Note: I do realize that just about everything is deadly in Shadowrun. Everything can kill you, easily, and planning/recon are what make the runs successful. However, I wouldn't know if a team could get by a hallway with X cameras of V variety, B security devices/traps, C locks, etc. without having played for a VERY long time, I would think.
It is a lot harder to gauge challenge vs. player strength in SR. You generally have to know the team you're talking about to be able to make a judgement. What would be a huge challenge for one team might be a cakewalk for another. It's all about what capabilities the team has.
For NPC sizing, you can usually gauge team strength based on average karma and translate that to NPC ratings in some fashion. Check out SR3 Companion, page 83 for a bunch of text on this and general ideas for NPC scaling.
For NPC sizing, you can usually gauge team strength based on average karma and translate that to NPC ratings in some fashion. Check out SR3 Companion, page 83 for a bunch of text on this and general ideas for NPC scaling.
It's all judgement calls in Shadowrun. You have to know your PCs well to properly scale an adventure. A group of samurai will roll over almost any combat challenge, but throw a single spellcaster or heaven forbid a single spirit will roll right over them. A group of deckers can co-ordinate their attacks since each of them has a seperate security tally, but you give them a single hellhound to play with and they're chew toys. A group of mages/adepts with weapon foci will tear an insect hive to shreds if they plan well, but they'll be slaughtered by the cyberzombie with the weird magic resistance they get. Know your team and you'll know their strengths and weaknesses.
Just play around and in the begining, feel free to fudge the dice if it looks like you over-challenged the PCs and they're about to get creamed, or throw in a surprise reinforcements if they're rolling over the opposition. You'll get the hang of it pretty quick.
Oh, and I used songs from a California punk band named Tilt to stand in for Maria Mercurial. The lead singer has an amazing voice that's just haunting and beautiful yet powerful and angry at the same time, and the lyrics for the 6-8 songs I chose all seemed to be strangely more relevant in the Shadowrun world than in our own (lots of anti-corporate and anti-big goverment/conservatives type stuff). I chose Tilt mainly because I'm into punk music and it's something the players I'm going to run it on (as well as most people) haven't heard, so they won't have immediate associations if I'd used a band like Evenescense or whatever.
The Abstruse One
Just play around and in the begining, feel free to fudge the dice if it looks like you over-challenged the PCs and they're about to get creamed, or throw in a surprise reinforcements if they're rolling over the opposition. You'll get the hang of it pretty quick.
Oh, and I used songs from a California punk band named Tilt to stand in for Maria Mercurial. The lead singer has an amazing voice that's just haunting and beautiful yet powerful and angry at the same time, and the lyrics for the 6-8 songs I chose all seemed to be strangely more relevant in the Shadowrun world than in our own (lots of anti-corporate and anti-big goverment/conservatives type stuff). I chose Tilt mainly because I'm into punk music and it's something the players I'm going to run it on (as well as most people) haven't heard, so they won't have immediate associations if I'd used a band like Evenescense or whatever.
The Abstruse One
Yay Tilt
Where's a good central collection of Shadowrun history? I'm backstory, timelines, --MAPS-- (I like maps), specific dealings, etc. I checked out shadowrunsequence and the Wizkids website that both had a timeline. Anywhere else I should look?
Thanks!
Thanks!
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