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FuelDrop
I just noticed that you can get a grand total of 1 heavy and two regular weapon mounts on a Steel Lynx.

So then I got to thinking: Assault Cannon in the heavy, Ares Alpha in the coaxial mount, and a hull mounted Shinwazi Blazer. Options for problem solving:
1. Assault cannon.
2. All of the bullets. All of them.
3. Grenade!
4. Kill it with fire!

of course, if you want to make absolutely sure you can fire all at once...
Sternenwind
One Bust-O-Move cost 350$ (availability 0).
2-3 grenades cost 200-300$ (availability 11f).
SR5* grenades and “multiple simultaneous blasts” rules, priceless.

*or SR4 with optional rules and 1-2 additional grenades.
Stahlseele
Always remember:
THE GROUND COUNTS FOR CHUNKY SALSA!
Effectively, the ground doubles all grenade damage.
psychophipps
Our former terrorist rigger liked to install claymore mines on his Bust-o-Moves. Imagine having a couple of Bust-o-Moves all tumbling and dancing cutely down the hallway when they stop in front of you all spread eagle with an adorable "Ta-Da!" Then you realize you can read "THIS SIDE TOWARDS ENEMY" on their bodies...
Draco18s
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Apr 4 2014, 10:38 AM) *
Always remember:
THE GROUND COUNTS FOR CHUNKY SALSA!
Effectively, the ground doubles all grenade damage.


By RAW it doesn't. One of my proposed rule changes was to make it so that it did, but that base damage was cut by half.

For ground-exploding grenades the net result is the same, but airburst grenades take a damage hit (with the upside that they're more likely to hit people hiding behind cover).
nezumi
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Apr 4 2014, 10:38 AM) *
Always remember:
THE GROUND COUNTS FOR CHUNKY SALSA!
Effectively, the ground doubles all grenade damage.


Do you have a quote for that? I figured the damage for grenades already factored in the ground (since the rules include it landing).
Stahlseele
QUOTE (nezumi @ Apr 4 2014, 05:02 PM) *
Do you have a quote for that? I figured the damage for grenades already factored in the ground (since the rules include it landing).

it's either in the grenade or in the chunky salsa part and says all 6 sides of a room count for this.
so either you have rooms with funny shapes, or both ground and ceiling count.
DrZaius
QUOTE (FuelDrop @ Apr 4 2014, 09:01 AM) *
I just noticed that you can get a grand total of 1 heavy and two regular weapon mounts on a Steel Lynx.

So then I got to thinking: Assault Cannon in the heavy, Ares Alpha in the coaxial mount, and a hull mounted Shinwazi Blazer. Options for problem solving:
1. Assault cannon.
2. All of the bullets. All of them.
3. Grenade!
4. Kill it with fire!

of course, if you want to make absolutely sure you can fire all at once...


I'm not familiar with the Shinwazi Blazer (Run 'n Gun?), but I think a good choice for the 3rd mount would be the Enfield AS-7.

What are the disadvantages of the AS-7?
Range (well, you've got that covered by the other 2 weapons)
Low ammo capacity (Hello, 250 round ammo bin!)
Recoil (Steel Lynx has 6 inherent, slap a Gas Vent 3 on there and you're in business)

Now you have weapons that can effective engage a target at all range categories, with it getting pants-wettingly uncomfortable when they're within 30 meters (which is good, because your drone is tough but not that tough, and you've dropped over 70 large on it before Autosofts or Ammo).
Stahlseele
Enfield AS-7 is a shotgun.
No Gas-Vent for Shotgun right?

Also, the shiawaze blazer is a basically SMG or shotgun sized flamethrower.
Legacy weapon since i think SR2?
Jack VII
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Apr 4 2014, 01:35 PM) *
Enfield AS-7 is a shotgun.
No Gas-Vent for Shotgun right?

Nah, just silencers (explicitly) and laser sights (in a totally throw away line of text in an earlier part of the gear section which makes little sense given one of the shotguns has a laser sight as a standard accessort).

QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Apr 4 2014, 01:35 PM) *
Also, the shiawaze blazer is a basically SMG or shotgun sized flamethrower.
Legacy weapon since i think SR2?

You could use the Shiawase Incinerator from Gun H(e)aven 3 as well.
Stahlseele
No Laser Sight makes no sense anyway . .
If you point it somewhere, you KNOW that either the SLUG or the Pellets WILL IMPACT THERE ABOUTS.
You can't tell where all pellets will land obviously, but the center of the circle at least.
Umidori
Reminds me of the "Little Black Dog" I built a while back as part of a theme character whom I never actually got to use. Not a Killbot, just a Utility-bot, but whatever. Dumping notes.

QUOTE
Scottish Terrier Drone
Quoted from Arsenal, p.118 - Entertainment Systems Falcon (Aerial Pet Drone)

"The Falcon’s stats and cost are meant for aerial pet drones. For walking pet drones, use the toy drone stats and modify the Acceleration and Speed values to fit those of the relevant pets, and increase the cost accordingly. Modifying a pet drone is very difficult without harming its realistic appearance and their unique form of movement—the gamemaster has a last say in what goes and what doesn’t."

Modified Bust-A-Move (Toy Walker Drone)

Handling: 0
Acceleration: 3/10, modded to 10/45 (Running Wild, p.92 - Medium and Small Domestic Dog)
Speed: 10, modded to 45
Pilot: 2
Body: 1
Armor: 0
Sensor: 1

$350 base price, Acceleration and Speed modded to 4.5x, adjusted price with mod multiplier: $1,575

Possible Further Modding

Gecko Tips - "Why is there a dog on the ceiling?"
Oil-Slick Sprayer: Chemical Sprayer Variety
-Compounds
---Adhesives - "Why won't this door open?"
---Flash Paper - "Peeing fire!"
---Stain - "Like following breadcrumbs."
Smoke Projecter: Chemical Projecter Variety
-Compounds
---Smokes
---Toxins
Other options possible. Maybe cram it full of C4?

Tall dark and handsome/
Cigar in your mouth/
A little black dog and a suitcase by your side/

You told me to start running/
The streets were overcrowded here that night/
You told me to look straight into the light/
That the heavens are opening up for you tonight/

~FOE
FuelDrop
What other good options are there for sticking a whole ton of guns onto a 5th edition drone?

Well, there's the Doberman: Standard weapon mount in the front can have a Incinerator while you can throw on a scorpion-tail-style mount on the back with an Ares Pred. That's a lot of firepower.

Likewise, the Rotordrone: 2 standard mounts loaded with ARs means a LOT of suppression fire.

Hmmm... has anyone managed to make an Ares Duelist useful yet? Those swords it's mounted with are crap and I've yet to see any reason you'd take one over a doberman unless you're a rigger who REALLY likes his cc.
Umidori
QUOTE (FuelDrop @ Apr 5 2014, 01:02 AM) *
Hmmm... has anyone managed to make an Ares Duelist useful yet? Those swords it's mounted with are crap and I've yet to see any reason you'd take one over a doberman unless you're a rigger who REALLY likes his cc.

The only reasons I would think to take one is to act as a sort of automated mannequin decoy (particularly if Disguise can be used to make it seem more human, or if you plan for it to only be seen only at range or in darkness or something), or if you're a good enough Rigger then possibly for silent assassination.

Although for the life of me, I cannot figure out where to look to find out how much effective Strength the Duelist actually has in order to determine the damage of the swords! I checked it's own entry in the gear chapter, I checked the entry on Drones in the Rigging chapter, I checked the entry on Vehicle Stats in the Vehicles section of the Combat chapter...

~Umi
FuelDrop
QUOTE (Umidori @ Apr 5 2014, 04:46 PM) *
The only reasons I would think to take one is to act as a sort of automated mannequin decoy (particularly if Disguise can be used to make it seem more human, or if you plan for it to only be seen only at range or in darkness or something), or if you're a good enough Rigger then possibly for silent assassination.

Although for the life of me, I cannot figure out where to look to find out how much effective Strength the Duelist actually has in order to determine the damage of the swords! I checked it's own entry in the gear chapter, I checked the entry on Drones in the Rigging chapter, I checked the entry on Vehicle Stats in the Vehicles section of the Combat chapter...

~Umi

I work on the Drone's body subbing for strength. In this case, 4.
yeah, that's underwhelming.
Umidori
Did they really just not stat out Drone strength values?

*quick Data Search*

Huh. It seems the same thing occured in SR4 as well. I did find a forum post where someone points out that there's the mechanical arm/grapple from Arsenal which states "As a guideline, assume that the Strength of the grapple/arm is the vehicle’s Body", but they also point out that this can become very messy very quickly because "you can then give the grapples/arms a body rating AND a strength rating by using cyberlimb enhancements".

This is just weird to me. Most of the time when a non-standard device is listed, it has its own special rules. For example, the Hydraulic Press modular cyberlimb plugin from Augmentation specifically states it has an effective Strength of 20, and then they even give it a separate damage code on top of that because they decided to grant it built in AP.

Why would they go to the trouble of statting out a melee centric drone, and even give it a special Swords targeting autosoft, but then not rule on it's effective Strength for purposes of calculating the damage those swords inflict?

Oh, wait. Nevermind. I know. It's because the SR5 corebook was a rush-job pushed out as a muddled, incomplete mess with glaring errors and holes in pretty much every major system more complicated than basic firearm combat.

~Umi
psychophipps
I'm just trying to figure out what idiot thought a melee-centric drone would be a good idea. I mean, seriously? ohplease.gif
Umidori
Well the fluff describes it as a novelty at worst and a niche role at best - they specifically cite using it to fill out skeleton crews.

I dunno, I could think of a few cases it might be useful.

On the one side of the equation, you might employ it specifically for its looks. People don't respond well to walking into a building guarded by robotic machine guns, but they're reasonably more accepting of humanoid robots with mere swords - particularly if that image matches the theme or decor somehow. I could see a pair of them flanking the entrance to a showy Chinese restaurant in a rough neighborhood which doesn't have the money to hire actual security guards.

On the other side of the equation, the fluff mentions that at a distance they're humanoid enough to be mistaken for actual people, so if you want to give the false impression of greater-than-actual activity at a site where you don't expect the opposition to take a close, careful look, then these sound perfect. Maybe you have a gated compound out in the boonies somewhere and you want to make people think it has 24 hour security - for the cost of rock-bottom cyberdeck, you can make it look like you've got a dozen guards on permanent, regular patrol.

One thing I note is that they are described as having "blade arms", and depending on what they mean by that it might have entirely different appearances. If they mean just a normal robotic arm with a permanently affixed blade positioned as if a human arm were holding a typical sword, then yeah, that might not be ideal because who fields guards who walk with swords actively drawn? If, however, they mean something like the T-1000 with actual blades for arms, that might stand out a lot less, particularly at range.

~Umi
Jack VII
The rules aren't exactly clear, but I would guess you could either replace the blade with a weapon mount or give them one in addition to the blade. Get a group of three or four, a decent RCC, spool up some quality targeting/clearsight/manuevering autosoft and command them to perform active sensor targeting + FA attack with a SMG or AR. It's expensive, but could be fairly entertaining.

I put together a character who is setup that way, haven't had a chance to try him out yet.
Jaid
the rules are actually very clear about the blades being impossible to replace (specifically: "(The mounted swords cannot be replaced with other weapons, but additional weapon mounts may be installed using the normal rules.)"

of course, it would be surprising if there wasn't an equivalent line from anyone else that had this crazy idea of, oh, i dunno, making an almost identical chassis but with guns instead of swords. or even crazier stuff like giving the drone hands.
Jack VII
Well, it says the swords can't be replaced, indicating that the mounts the swords are using are specific to the swords. What the rules aren't really explicit about is whether those sword mounts take up the only weapon mount the drone would be allowed given its body (the "normal rules" being that you can have one weapon mount per 3 Body rounded down). I think it is implied pretty heavily that you can given the text, but it might depend on the GM. The ones for the character I built have both the sword mounts and a regular weapon mount for an M23.
Modular Man
I built a rigger who keeps one Ares Duelist in his van at all times. After all, he's driving around with some other criminals who might or might not be maniacs under the surface. If anyone on board gets uppity, the drone provides close combat and cover while the rigger busts out the Krime Cannon. It's essentially another defensive layer for close combat situations.

I like that BaM/Claymore-idea. I'm gonna take that for another SR4 character smile.gif

Also remember that drones do not care about stun damage (per the rules). So duct-tape some stun grenade onto one and detonate if the enemy comes too close (or close in yourself).
Clarify with the GM first though, there might be a disagreement about how well sensors take flashbangs. Then again, most electronic sensors are sturdier than human sensory organs, so a non-lethal, no-permanent-damage-type weapon might be essentially just a nuisance.
DrZaius
QUOTE (Modular Man @ Apr 5 2014, 06:16 PM) *
I built a rigger who keeps one Ares Duelist in his van at all times. After all, he's driving around with some other criminals who might or might not be maniacs under the surface. If anyone on board gets uppity, the drone provides close combat and cover while the rigger busts out the Krime Cannon. It's essentially another defensive layer for close combat situations.

I like that BaM/Claymore-idea. I'm gonna take that for another SR4 character smile.gif

Also remember that drones do not care about stun damage (per the rules). So duct-tape some stun grenade onto one and detonate if the enemy comes too close (or close in yourself).
Clarify with the GM first though, there might be a disagreement about how well sensors take flashbangs. Then again, most electronic sensors are sturdier than human sensory organs, so a non-lethal, no-permanent-damage-type weapon might be essentially just a nuisance.

Unrelated, but I remember someone posting on here about a razorboy who had a pair of flash paks attached to each shoulder which struck me as extremely metal.
Modular Man
That would work, too, especially if you build in other sensory modes like ultrasound or even a chemsniffer. It's a nice idea, by the way. smile.gif
Seriously, I advise you to go and read "Kill Decision" by Daniel Suarez.
I read that book not too long ago, it featured drones using pepper spray to mark targets and designate allies, it was supposed to work in the way of an ant colony.
One drone closes in, sprays the target as an enemy, attacks. Next drone recognizes enemy, adds its own dose of spray, attacks as well... now the double dose will surely attract other drones. Instant flashmob of angry machines. Kinda scary.
Sadly, in Shadowrun 4, chemsniffers are kinda expensive. That collides with that "cheap and disposable killbots" idea of the scheme.
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