What should a shared monthly medium lifestyle cost for a Troll and a Dwarf?

How does the various lifestyle adders and multipliers apply for a shared lifestyle?

Base Lifestyle, +10% per additional Member sharing that lifestyle.

I think you're missing the part where Dwarves have +20% to lifestyle costs and Trolls have +100% in 5E, TJ.

~Umi

Not really... Base Lifestyle... So, Use the Most expensive component as a baseline, which is Troll.

Troll Middle Lifestyle... 10,000 Nuyen.
Additional Dwarf Roommate (+20% over 1,000), so an additional +1,200 Nuyen.

For a total of 11,200 Nuyen.
Pretty basic Math.

Want more roommates (Humans, Orks and Elves add for a peasly 1,000 Nuyen each), keep adding. Easy Peasy...

Uh.... Why are you calling the Modified Lifestyle cost for a Troll the Base cost?

The way I would reconcile it would be to calculate Base Lifestyle +10%, split that in half, then each player pays their half modified for their own race.

So for a Low Lifestyle the base cost is 2000. Add +10% for a single roomate to get 2200. The two tennants split it that value at the rate of 1100 each. The Dwarf pays +20% on their half for a total of 1320. Meanwhile the Troll pays +100% on their half for a total of 2200.

Total combined cost of 3520. If the two tennant were renting separtely, they'd be paying 4400 + 2640 for a combined total of 7040, so the savings still work out to about the right percentage. (100% + 100% = 200% separately, vs 100% + 10% = 110% together, 7040 / 200 compared to 3520 / 110, it adds up cleanly.)

Your way makes no sense - you're charging two people living together almost twice what they would pay living separately.

~Umi

Because the Residence MUST BE SCALED For the Largest Person, so Troll...
Also, you split the Cost. 11,200 / 2 is not twice the cost for either of them (it is only 5,600), which is only slightly higher than base cost for the Lifestyle with no modifiers (Which BOTH would be above (Dwarf 6,000 Nuyen, and Troll 10,000 Nuyen) for their race, so your argument is not really very convincing). Each Additional Individual will drive that down even further.

Not sure how you got Twice what they would be paying out of your math, since I have shown they will both be paying LESS if they shared the residence... *shrug)

We really need to stop responding to each other before completing our edits, because I swear you added in the Middle Lifestyle thing to that first post while I wasn't looking. I should have quoted you before the edit, and I shouldn't have moved MY edit to a new post.

~Umi

No worries.

Is that a rule as written?

I think it's what makes sense. A Dwarf can fit through a troll-sized door, but not visa versa. Likewise, a Dwarf can use a troll-sized bath but a Troll will be REALLY uncomfortable in a dwarf-sized bath.

No, but it's somewhat common sense.

The problem I have with TJ's assumption is that he's treating building size as the only determinant of a Troll's Lifestyle cost increases.

My method keeps the costs proportional to the needs of each tenant. His method forces the Troll to foot most of the bill and turns the Dwarf into a freeloader - unless they split the cost evenly, which doesn't work either because it isn't fair to the Dwarf whose needs are much lesser than the Troll's.

~Umi

I'd make the troll pay extra for his industrial sized toilet..

And yet, with my method, they both pay less than they normally would. So who cares?

The person who is being asked to pay more than their fair share after reductions?

If you go out to lunch with a friend and split the bill evenly, the person who ordered the salad gets robbed by the person who ordered the steak.

It doesn't matter if you got the special Steak and Salad combo, thus saving money on your total order, the steak eater is still not paying their fair share of the reduced combo price.

Now, if they both ate half the salad and half the steak, rather than each person eatting one plate or the other in its entirety, then it'd be fair. But that's not what's happening.

~Umi

In case you missed it, we are not discussing JUST food... And face it, the troll eats more food. If the Dwarf hates that (who also likely eats more food too anyways) then he can go live by himself and pay MORE to live there.
Unless you are claiming that the Dwarfs fair share is only the 1200 Nuyen (for the add-on) they are paying as their share. In the case I presented... the Troll would need to be paying the base price of the Residence, since he needs it scaled to him. Anyone eles can come along to jump on that ship. I have a hard time scaling things for the Dwarf residence, and then saying that it is only a minimal charge to add the troll (troll requires completely restructuring and reinforcing for everything in the residence, including some parts of the residence itself). All other Metatypes are irrelevant in the discussion, since they do not have increases based upon metatype.

So, if the troll complains, then he can just go live by himselfand watch the costs just keep climbing. Same with the Dwarf. Together, they pay LESS than they would each pay alone. That does not match your argument above in the least (the Meal argument). One of them is not paying more than they would otherwise pay (they are paying less, in fact). *shrug*

Apparently we see things differently here. No worries, though.

Actually, it does. If you get a Combo Meal, you pay less than you would if you paid for the two things separately.

That said, the salad portion of that combo still costs less intrinsically than the steak portion. Now, the Dwarf isn't terrible hungry, all they want and need is the salad - they don't mind if the Troll has the much more filling steak, because the Troll's super dang hungry compared to the Dwarf.

The problem comes when they get their bill. The price is already lower than if they payed alone, since they split the combo. But you would have them take that special lower price and then divide it evenly - which isn't fair to the Dwarf. The salad was a mere quarter of the meal - sure it was all he needed, by why is he paying half the price of a meal that he only ate one quarter of? Sure, he get's the savings of the combo - but so does the Troll, so that doesn't mean anything.

Meanwhile, the Troll got to eat the big juicy steak which was 75% of the meal (and hence 75% of the value of the bill) - and for good reason, he's a big troll, he needs the bigger portion and the dwarf really doesn't need more than the salad. But he still gets three quarters of the value of the deal and only has to pay half the cost. That's not proportional, and it's not fair.

I understand your point about having a troll sized apartment with big enough doors and troll sized furniture. I get that we're talking about necessary lower limits - a dwarf can live in a Troll house with minimal problems, but not vice versa, so the apartment must necessarily have room for a Troll.

But what I'm talking about is how you split the cost once you've picked a suitable apartment and everything else. If you simply split the price evenly, the Dwarf is overpaying for their portion of the things they need and use. Yeah, that Steak and Salad combo is big enough to feed two people, but if one of them only eats a quarter and the other eats three quarters, splitting the price down the middle is unfair. Yeah, that apartment is big enough to fit a Troll as well as a Dwarf, but if the Dwarf pays half the price yet only uses a quarter of the ammenities, they're getting ripped off by the Troll.

~Umi

As I see it, you two have agreed on the total value but not, how much the single residents pay? I don't see you finding a common ground on this question, because I believe it is up to anyone's personal opinion. Just to reconsider the options, so someone just looking for the info just has it bundled:

1. They split 50/50 as it is written in the book. This doesn't consider how much the single resident costs for the lifestyle and that's it.

2. They split in proportion of their costs for living alone. For an example, Troll pays 10k alone, Dwarf pays 6k alone, which would make a 62,5/37,5 split or in this case 7000 and 4200 total.

I don't see any other options with solid numbers behind them, but I could just miss something.

And for clarification: I didnt want to tell you, Imidori and Tymeaus Jalynsfein, to stop, but as I said, I didn't think you would findyourselves with the same opinion here.

Indeed... there are a lot of ways to split the cost... But your Number 2 solution does not work, since the total is 11,200. NOT 16,000 as you indicate.
I like the 50/50 Split, because otherwise you will get into all sorts of arguments about usage. Been there, done that, got rid of the roommates. 50/50 is fair, as it eliminates the arguments, and is what the book says - and that is to split evenly.

No matter how you cut it, in the 50/50 Scenario, BOITH parties are paying less than the standard cost for the Lifestyle, and that I fair all the way around, in my opinion. Less fiddly bookkeeping, and less ego involved when it comes to "What is used by each individual person."

He was using the total of 16,000 to determine what the split should be for payment in order to be more fair than a 50/50 split where the troll would receive a much larger portion of savings than the dwarf does.

I think that the players should be allowed to determine how to split it themselves. If the human shaman who doesn't know what to spend his money on wants to pay 100% of the rent so that his buddies the dwarf rigger and the troll street samurai can save their cash for more interesting toys I'd be fine with it.

I'm also more in favor of calculating the total according to TJ's method. Using Umi's method (base/2+%), if the Troll were to pay 100% of the total cost for the pair for 1 month (3520) he would end up paying 480 less than if he were living alone and doing the same. This makes no sense to me, having to provide more food, clothing and other amenities for a different person (especially one so vastly different) should not allow me to save money on my expensive, especially not a savings of 12%.

Well, yes, in the end, in-game, the PCs can split it however fairly or unfairly, but we still need to get an accurate base cost. Troll/Dwarf is going to be expensive, because you need big stuff for the troll (and his big appetite and so on), but you also need little stuff for the dwarf, or else a multitude of stepladders/stepstools (which the poor troll would trip over!), drones to get things down from high places and so on. So I think TJ's calculation of total cost is probably fair. It might even be too generous! God I can't even imagine what kind of kitchen counter setup they'd need - I wouldn't even try it on less than medium because they'd really need drones and appliances to make this even viable.

Of course, tangent, but I think the fixed +10% per house-mate for lifestyle cost is insanely low, having lived with house-mates. I mean, it seems to assume the base lifestyle cost gets you a four-bedroom apartment/house, which is kind of nuts for starters - I'd think that low got you a one or two bedroom deal, medium, one to three (less bedrooms would mean a much larger/nicer living space), high, two to six, luxury, well, likely four+.

Personally I'd think that with high and luxury lifestyle, yeah, maybe +10% per person is reasonable, because you'll have the bedrooms and bathrooms to support that just because, probably same for squatter, because, well, you're squatting, you take the space you need, and it's just food etc. making extra cost (I'd still think for than 10%, but maybe not a lot more) - but at low and medium I'd think the cost should probably be +40% and +25% respectively. Still, I imagine they'll go into that sort of detail in a sourcebook eventually.

In Shadowrun, no body pays, so it doesn't matter. The decker hacks a lifestyle, and everyone stays. The Mage pays incidentals, 'cause he's got spare cash