So it's my understanding that physical money is mostly a thing of the past for most of the world, but is there anywhere, specifically North America, where you can get real money? And once you've gotten it, where can you spend it?

You can get real Money everywhere at Street or Squatter Lifestyle
and You can spend it there too
Physical Money is not extinct or forbidden/illegal, its just extremely unusual at Middle or higher Lifestyle !
...oh 2063 (SR3),than you could get/spend it at low lifestyle too

with a Dance on the Streets
Medicineman

I don't know about "Paper Money" bills specifically, but credsticks are stated as being just as good as cash, which would by extension mean that cash is still in active usage. Credsticks are also said to be accepted pretty much everywhere, although people will find it to be unusual in many places.

I'd say "Paper Money" is the same. If you walk into a store and buy an item with bills, they surely have to accept it as legal tender (assuming you're using the appropriate currency for the region), but it'd be kind of like trying to pay for a tank of gas with rolls of pennies in the present day - people will look at you funny, but ultimately shrug and take your money.

~Umi

This is what the 3E Matrix sourcebook (p.11) says on the topic:


Which of course makes you wonder how large an amount still counts as a small expenditure. I'd say maybe anything below 100¥.

There's also regional differences. The German-language Chrom&Dioxin sourcebook (admittedly 2E/2056) mentions the Swiss being loath to give up physical cash, so that in Switzerland credsticks are commonly only used for amounts in the four digits and up.

I think there are no physical currency for corporate scripts/credits. And Atzlan has 2 currency’s, based on what they wrote about it, only one is available physical form.

Wow, how did I miss that? I was under the impression that cash went the way of the dodo, and that it was practicially unheard of to have/use. thanks.

Well, it is rare, it's just not unheard of.

I should add that not every place will accept cash in Shadowrun. Some places might not be equipped for it. It's similar to trying to pay with a check nowadays: a lot of places don't want the hassle of dealing with it.

Ayup. Essentially the lower on the lifestyle ladder you get, the more you'll see cash instead of credstick transactions. Its hard to give a homeless guy a handout when he doesn't have a credstick reader. There wil be some regional modification, obvoiously. In Philadelphia, home of the UCAS mint, there's a historical pride in cash that keeps it floating around fairly often. Every store at Low and below will have a cash till, even if rarely used, and leaving tips in bill form (and even coins!) isn't unusual. In future-looking Atlanta, however, even Squatters keep digital cash around while the homeless are seen as little better than animals; they can't even beg for handouts as no one has cash to give them! In the mea streets of Atlanta, barter's the order of the day.

You can bet that today's cash advance places, pawn shops, and payday lenders are still going strong and fully targeting the underclasses of society. Just as there are people today who don't have a bank, who pay to cash their checks, and keep their cash in their pocket at all times, you'll have the same going on in Shadowrun.

Of course, in your more tightly-run corporate areas, it'll be all about the commlink, keeping track of your digital purchases and movements; untraceable cash is an abomination! Or, er, ahem, an outmoded inconvinience to the modern consumer who knows that digital transactions are fast, friendly, and well-protected. Why risk baiting a mugger fromthose awful, unsafe parts of town that you shouldn't be near anyway? Stay nice and cozy in safe corporate environs and know that your safety comes first.

(The corp is mother, the corp is father...)

Well, to be fair, even those places have gone electronic. You can opt to get your money on a short-lived prepaid card if you prefer. Naturally, there's a small fee; and any spare change left on the card when the card expires is forfeit, but who's counting, right?

Even social services have gotten in on the deal. In California, you get your welfare money automatically debited to a card, issued by Bank of America. Of course, there's a catch: actually withdrawing cash incurs an ATM fee, even if you use a Bank of America ATM.

So, you can see the push, even now, to eliminate paper money from the system. However, cash has proven tenacious, and people like having it, even if they don't use it much. Look at all the attempts to get rid of the two-dollar bill: each one was met with serious resistance, and that's the least-used bill in general circulation. Removing every bill would be much harder.

I'm running a campaign using 4th ed rules set in '73 CFS and have stated explicitly that CFS has kept paper currency as a matter of national pride. As a game device, I've added that it makes smaller bribes much easier on the one being bribed. I personally don't want to eliminate cash from my game simply because it reduces a variety of options for adventure. Who's going to rob a bank that doesn't have any money in it? I do, however, make it a point to make the players feel awkward if they try to buy anything big, nice, or relatively expensive, with cash. It keeps the illusion of a paperless society vivid.

To be fair, there's no need to eliminate "cash" from the game.

Credsticks are "cash". They're technically electronic, but their worth belongs to whomever has their grubby little mitts on them. If you drop a credstick and someone else picks it up, that's the exact same thing as dropping a wallet full of paper money.

~Umi

If he is talking the 2060s (aka SR3) that is not entirely true.

A certified credstick is not assigned to a specific person and can be used by any person holding one. So yeah, you can lose it/ find it and use it just like the lost wallet.

Your regular credstick however typically did require some level of ID check to be able to use it.


In SR4 this changed to where your Commlink carried your SIN and all other respective data for verification purposes as well as account details and credsticks were all now certified credsticks and again could be used/lost/misused as ever.
However most people operating aboveboard would just be using their accounts via commlink while more shadowy transactions prefer the credstick for keeping things anonymous.

I understand this, though SR4 rules were pretty adamant that even HAVING a credstick was suspicious. I don't like that aspect. I want my players to be uneasy in rich areas, but not so much in other areas. I want them to be able to mix fairly easily with laborers and low-end management. I also like visual props and pictures (my runners are 10 and 14 IRL) so paper makes sense for my game. Since CFS seems to be a pretty unpopular setting for whole games, and is rife with corruption (more so than other countries), paper is easy to introduce without contaminating canon too much.

Of course, I will be contaminating canon horribly when they go to NYC and find it's basically Mega City One from Judge Dredd, but that's another thread.

that's word i was wondering what the significance of a certified credstick was. like a certified check or money order hahaha

A certified credstick is a great thing. It's like a check or money order, but it's also a datatrail, since it's tied to a specific person. You can use them to lull the runners into a false sense of security.

Let us know how you stat the Judge's Gun and Bike.

Not exactly. A certified credstick is like a prepaid credit card, it's tied to an account but not necessarily a person. It's untraceable in the sense that anyone can pick it up and use it, it's impossible to prove who did any given transaction. It leaves a dxatatrail in the sense that thered is a transaction record, and enough suspicious items can come back to haunt you. I just assumed that any halfway intelligent shadowrunner would rotate their credsticks on a regular basis.

Credsticks aren't rare. They plug into commlinks, for crying out loud. You can transfer funds between two credsticks with complete ease and almost perfect security. They are literally like electronic wallets full of electronic bills.

~Umi

idk if this was said yet but corporations sometimes print script to pay there employees with. which crosses over into the shadows

also idk if this was said either but any Casino should be able to exchange and accept any kind of money in the world


i don't think credsticks are more rare, but i think they are a symbol of shadow work so they don't really fit in with upper crust society anymore and might be frowned upon by retailers and others when you try to pay for something with them

It can be handy for those wanting to get goodies from corp branch shops that only take their own scrip, but rare to see these in large amounts.

True, but be careful as places like Le Grande Risqué can also play for steeper stakes.


Idk, that is sort of like saying that dollar bills are a symbol of hanging out in a strip joint. Yes it is used there, but I wouldn't say it's predominately for there.

Before commlinks became the norm to use for your accounts, I would expect the upper crust to carry a credstick rather than sully their hands with scrip.

I have yet to see a store owner turn away a valid currency, even a credstick, you are more likely to be ignored/subtly encouraged to leave due to your appearance than to the color(physical or virtual) of the money.

Especially if it is a spicier store like when you are buying lingerie for the mistress (who yes may be an exotic dancer you met while using the corp scrip at the strip joint- they don't like customers trying to swipe a credstick between their...nevermind) and who certainly don't want the bill showing up on the monthly bank statement for the missus to see.

ha my roommate tried to buy a 5,000$ TV at best buy in cash. they didn't believe him. then the looks on their faces when the first wad of cash didn't cut the bill so he proceeded to pull out another wad to finish paying for it.

you get looks paying for anything that's over $500 in cash.

looks!

idk about the corporate cash thing though. it just happened in a story i read where they got 5k of corporate cash instead of 3.5k nuyen. so whatever just saying

I suppose I can relate to this. I've bought every Pearl Jam album but the first one on the day of release, and I'm fairly proud of that tradition. When the most recent one came out, my first choice of store had a spot for the album, but they hadn't received the shipment, so my wife and I went to WalMart. They had it, but I hate WalMart. I paid cash so that my bank, credit card company, etc ... would have no idea I spent money there.

I suppose posting this kinda defeats the purpose of eliminating the data trail, but enough time has passed.

I've spoken to a few waiters/waitresses, bartenders, etc., who prefer to receive their tips in cash. The business owners prefer that you put it on your card, and I've gotten a few questioning looks for leaving cash on the table. But the servers all prefer cash, because then they don't have to say exactly how much they made, meaning they can keep more of it.

heh i usually pay the bill with the card and tip in cash

For anyone who thinks physical bills (cash) is gone in 2063:

1. strippers. gona swipe her crack with your credstick? I think not.

2. the shadows. credsticks are electronic and have records. Its hard to do illegal, nefarious or just embarrassing things with a trail of records, and politicians are the biggest proponents of those three things.

In our games we also use "U-Plast" next to Cash (UCA$) an Idea that came up in the first Edition of sr (yes I am old, no snarky comments please). Our Version is some sort of "Underground Plastic Money" like a an MMO Gametime Cards, Gas or Energy Points Card or "Matrix Minutes Prepaid Cards", etc. Small, Easy to carry arround and if the Currency goes haywire a Month of Gametime or 30 cell plan minutes never loose their inherent usefullness.

The Advantage is that it is easy to understand and every Stuffer Shack has a Vendor for a few of these "prepaid giftcard" sort of things. Sure the transaction could be traced if one is actually used, but nobody can really tell how many hands the item went through. And your Cred Account only shows that you are a binge shopper when it comes to giftcards.

Corporate Scrip is very much a thing, but it doesn't crop up in the published adventures, since those are mostly convention missions that have a whole different design theory. It should crop up in home games more often, simply because it's fun.

Somewhere around here, I have a post that pulls some conversion rates out of the air and slaps 'em down, all unofficial-like.

I've used corporate scrip in the past, but generally only when I had a goal for it. Keeping track of it was always a bit more aggravation, so players liked to convert it into nuyen rather than have to deal with tracking different currencies.

If you want corp scrip to work, it needs to have a benefit. For example, I had a team get consistently paid in Ares corp scrip, which I convinced them was basically gift certificates to Weapons World. It also convinced them they were working for Ares, which in turn set them up for an elaborate betrayal; once they were fully equipped with Ares weapons, Ares armor, Ares cyber, and even a few Ares foci, they were caught on film destroying a hospital facility and were publicly declared to be an Ares funded terrorist team. Since Ares hadn't heard of them, they now had Ares gunning for them, their old employer gunning for them, and a bunch of bounty hunters gunning for them. Scrip was an important part of the plot, since they hadn't converted much of their earnings recently and had most of their wealth in Ares scrip... which they couldn't use without exposing themselves to Ares. It was probably the biggest screwover I ever pulled on a group, and we had a blast with it.

Oh I am so using that. The group has been lucky enough to have picked the good fixers who get decent Johnson's who don't have 'frag over 'runners' as part of the initial plan

The secret to fragging over the runners isn't to do it at every opportunity. Savor it and build up to a great big Frag You all at once. It's actually more fun for both the GM and the players that way.

I can't imagine Cash being removed from the economy entirely. I can imagine however that shops/stores in certain places have signs up saying "We do not accept paper bills"... much like some (abiet few) stores today say "We do not accept card".

Nah, it'd be more like checks. Lots of places don't accept checks, because they don't have a check verification system worth a damn. In the same vein, a place might not accept cash because they're not set up for it: they don't have a cash register, so they can't make change, or even have a secure place to keep the cash if they do take it.

Pretty much. The stores that cater to cash would be about the same ones as today, with pawn shops, payday loan offices, check cashing services, and other low-income-targeting operations. Popping down to the Ork Underground will find a lot of these places, for instance, and you'll find a ton of sellers that'll take cash in addition to, or even *instead* of, cred.