Hi

Our GM has decided he'd like to run a game set (or a least starting) in prison. Are there any good sourcebooks for this? Any information or full write-ups would be good, but there's a few specific bits of information we'd like (the rest can be extrapolated from real-world).

1) How do prisons handle magic users long-term? I can't see 24/7 mage hoods being a solution.
2) How do prisons handle cyberware and bioware? Some things can be easily disabled, but what about (for example) bone lacing, or muscle toner, or an internal deck or commlink?

We've been put in a temporary lockup already and the internal deck had a plug in the socket, and there is no outside access so it's on but of limited use. The mage had mage cuffs but no hood, so he could cast but only once before being shocked into unconsciousness. The adept wasn't restricted at all, as we didn't really know what you'd do to restrict him? Weapons and stuff were obviously disabled but things like cyberarms were left as-is (but weaponless) as you can't really expect people to be limbless.

Is there an official source for this sort of info, or is it just something we'll have to work out for ourselves?

Thanks

Josh

I'd rather not specify the source, and I wager this would be something very rare indeed, but I recall reading a spot where a cannon character wore something that created a rating 12 mana void around their body (if you're familiar with the anime Bleach, think Kenpachi's eyepatch). Street Magic, page 120 to see what this'll do to any astrally perceiving/projecting character.

Then there's the Haven Lily (Street Magic, 127) that creates up to a rating 3 mana ebb around it. Certainly not very effective for a magically powerful character, but taking a -3 to Magic and an additional +3 to spell Force for drain calculations can hurt. Especially for a starting character who's magic will be, at best, cut in half.

There's also wards, and while they cannot intersect with one another they can still be layered, trapped, and other little nastiness. A prison dealing in magician containment likely will also have paracritters and spirits on guard as well.

An internal commlink/cyberdeck is easy enough, as there is such a thing as WiFi inhibiting wallpaper and paint. On a more complex level are Faraday cages and ECM. I'd probably go with the WiFi paint, as it is the cheapest and easiest to maintain for something like a prison (no moving parts or electronics to fail, especially if there's a power outage).

And for something completely different, forced VR in a UV node duplicating the prison could be quite interesting. Just when you think you've broken out of the prison...

Thanks for that. I'll have a look into the mana void item.

As for the WiFi - the GM rules (and I kinda expected the same) that the whole prison was a faraday cage, and each individual cell also, like it's built into the walls. It makes sense really. But that means I still have an active Deck do, well, not much with really but I could watch videos and play games I've got I was asking more if there's a reason to go beyond this and try to disable an internal link or deck?

Have to go dig up the old Lone Star book...think they touched on some of this, but can not recall exactly what.

Lone Star basically has information on how to keep "special" folks (read: you) locked down despite magic, gear, and 'ware. I think most of it's actually been in the Corebook for awhile (mage hoods, ear mufflers, cyberplugs, etc).

State of the Art 2063 has stuff on prisons - getting in, getting out, what you can expect, runs, what they can do with you.

Both good books for adventure material.

Forced VR. Food and water through a tube. ISO CUBE 10 years.


Depending on the ware I would say in some cases removal, in the case of commlinks and internal decks. For bone lacing and muscle toner, constant sedation.

See, while that sounds good, Lone Star (which I've looked up since it was mentioned) talks about an overhaul of the prison system after it was found to breach human rights laws, and a heavy focus on rehabilitation.

Your system basically annihilates every human rights law there is.

Also a consideration, your system would be totally useless as a setting for a game

You could always got with a "Running Man" system. One setting is to taze unruly inmates, the second is a bit more...permanent and is reserved for escapes, attacks on guards, etc. You try to disable it or damage the collar to where it doesn't send/receive the signal it's supposed to and...BOOM. Oh, and if the battery dies or something goes wrong with the collar...BOOM. Makes a good charge and maintenance less of a hassle if the inmates are intimately interested in making sure the gear runs well, barring the occasional hypocollariac.

Another option would be a brain implant that controls your endorphine/norendorphine production. You follow the rules and you're normal or even up a bit. You break the rules and you hurt all over and feel depressed. You try to be violent and they immediately slap you with the depression-by-four and you won't even enjoy hurting someone.

I completely realize this, which is why I would probably never run a traditional prison game in Shadowrun. I mean if you are going to be a huge danger to guards, you will very quickly be dead. The prison break scenario only makes sense if they are going in, having bribed the necessary individuals on their way in. Just starting a game in a prison seems extremely problematic simply because it is nearly impossible to justify why a known hacker should be allowed to keep the items he hacks with, and a cybered professional killer should be able to keep his enhancements running.

I mean could prisons of the future simply be containment pits with latrines. The guards toss food and water down to the inmates, and let the strongest survive. Is it televised as the more realistic version of Survivor with an appropriate amount of Nietzschean quotes, and "player" monologues. Does Lord Humongous rule the PIT! Just saying human rights and dystopia seem like two things that just don't go together, unless you pay for those rights, with a thematically appropriate payment.

I thought they just threw them into Geodesic Psychoisolation Chambers?

~Raz

I'd also expect that given the concentration of emotions over time (not to mention the occasional violent crime), most prisons would have a non-zero background count as well. That makes things more interesting for all concerned.

If you take the example of modern American prisons which are built around a purpose of secure housing at the lowest cost/highest profit, and allow that supplying a prisoner with appropriate nutrition and health requirements while holding them constitutes an appropriate level of human rights, then prisons in Shadowrun could easily be imagined as massive VR warehouses. Small holding cells (think Japanese pod hotels) with medically supplied nutrients and mechanical cleaning of the residents could be used to establish sentences served entirely in VR. It would be a lot cheaper than any kind of 'live' holding would be. No risk of violence, no need for guards (just orderlies and machine maintenance workers). Maximum profit. Minimum effort. It's the MegaCorp wet dream.

Until some asshole in a trenchcoat and shades starts feeding prisoners red pills, neh?

~Umi

Gotta watch out for the occasional curious AI too....

And if they come out catatonic or psychotic, you can use that to leverage them into your affordable mental health programs...

It sounds like a MegaCorp wet dream right up until you realize that a prison without guards is just begging for a street gang with aspirations to show up with several semi-trucks full of pipe-hittin' trog heavies and go on a "recruitment drive," by which I mean shanghaiing anyone they like the look of. To say nothing of the cybered killer's friends trying to get them out.



Anyway, the way I look at the problems in the OP...





Simple, and rough on the mages: they use a forced drug regimen to burn their Essence until their Magic stat is zero. Or, for a faster option which is slightly more expensive but uses largely reusable parts, they forcibly install cheap, bullshit cyberware, then uninstall it. Think "secondhand standard-grade headware radio" until Essence <1. With an essence score of less than 1, you are dealing with an ex-mage, unless he was already at capped and initiated.




Internal commlinks are basically an internal hook-up into which commlink hardware is installed. They'd be designed to be easily accessed by cutting back the scalp from around them, so the hacker could have their implanted 'link upgraded at some point or another. It would be basically an outpatient procedure, so the prison could easily remove the decking components, even without removing the actual cybernetic bits.




That sounds more like jail, not prison. There is a difference. Jail is where you go whilst awaiting a trial and having been denied bail or having proven unable to make it; prison is where you go when you've been found guilty. Of course, this being Shadowrun, jail for SINners is likely much nicer than jail for the SINless.




For the less-permanent, "innocent until proven guilty" phase: physical restraints at all times. He wants to use the hopper, they manacle his legs to the wall before they uncuff his hands. Same with eating.



Yes you can. You absolutely can, if it's a cyberarm that grants some sort of advantage. Also, if the 'Star removes someone's cyberarm, they can put a cheap, type Owen clonal arm on them, or a Secondhand Basic no-frills purely prosthetic restoration-of-function cyberarm, and sell his criminal cyberarm for money.





Honestly? Landing in prison (and not being given one of those "we'll slip you out the back, but you work for and report to us from now on, oh and here's a nice cranial bomb to ensure compliance" deals,) is Game Over for any kind of Shadowrunner, but especially those who are heavily reliant on augmentations, because they'll be confiscated and sold because they're probably not legal, and even if they are, a lot of things which are legal for most people are definitely not legal for convicts still inside prisons.

And probably also for Awakened, too: "metahuman rights" can get stuffed, when you're trying to contain someone who could potentially mind control the Warden into letting him out or make someone burst into flames or crush a man's skull with a flung spitball, you do not take chances and you remove that ability from them. Forced burnout should be standard for Awakened characters who land in prison.

Ala Simon Phoenix in San Angeles...

I think it's more apt to say that a VR prison would require fewer guards.

In both a normal and a VR prison, you're going to need to keep the outside world out, so that aspect of the security doesn't change. But where you save money is in the fact that prisoners in VR don't get into fights, don't destroy equipment, don't deal in contraband, et cetera. Consequently, you don't need to have guards actively handling the prisoners on a day-to-day basis to control those sorts of behaviors.

Yeah, you'd need to have guards and systems in place in case of a catastrophopic system failure (and/or successful Sharowrunner sabotage) which shuts down the VR and releases the prisoners en masse, but a lot of that could be handled via passive security - even if they get let out of VR, the prisoners still can't dig through walls with their bare hands. Just incorportate killing fields in the design of the cell blocks and set up a couple of strategic guard outposts with machine guns and whatnot. Prisoners get loose and try to escape, they're not getting very far without a lot of holes in them.

~Umi

Oh yeah, that's something they do mention, that there's a pretty significant background count in most of them.

And I seem to remember a mage-specific prison somewhere, located over a mana void...

Naah... Just Isolate and Contain. No need for it to be on the Greater Greater Matrix at all. And absolutely NO REASON to be wireless. All Hardwired.

Wasn't it State of the Art: 2064 that had a chapter on this? Or was that 2063? Not at home, can't check.

But... but... if they don't turn on Wireless, how can they get the bonus? In the case of prisons, wifi connectivity raises the Barrier Ratings of all walls and restraints by 2!

~Umi

Fair points... I may have overstated the limited need of guards. Regardless, as UMI points, it would take far fewer resources than current systems do, and automation/robotics in Shadowrun further discount the requirements for human guards and staff.

No, actually, drones in a prison sounds like a TERRIBLE idea.

...unless they're completely non-wireless. Either directly controlled by human operator via a cable, or fully autonomous via a nice, strong Pilot Program. Preferably both.

Edit: And now I can't stop watching and rewatching that damn clip. Such a good movie. Bonus points for a great example of an Assault Cannon, to boot.

~Umi

Yeah, one technomancer slips through and you're boned once he's got all the drones. Well, maybe if it's SR5; certainly if it's SR4.

Had a thought cross my mind, with all the natural disaster stuff happening, regarding the prison that uses forced VR for containment. What's going to happen when there is a [super]natural disaster around the prison, the power's out, and the backup power's about to expire?

And that anime scene, makes me miss the good days of good anime. Will have to see to watching that circle sometime.

Hell, I miss the days of good movies. Current day anime has some worthwhile and intelligent stuff if you know where to look and are patient, but I miss watching new films that make me think.

The current moviemaking philosophy is "Spectacle, Spectacle, Spectacle!", just trying to throw as much CGI garbage onto the screen as possible, typically while reselling ideas and brands that are already proven via the Sequel-mobile. Heck, that's something I like about most good animes - they tend to go to great pains to blend the CGI with the animation to make it as seamless as possible, even when they're retreading familiar ground.

~Umi

Don't forget the pseudo-3D in movies these days. Just another gimmick to wow the viewer. But we wander a little too much from the topic.

I wonder if some shadowrun based prisons have their own urban brawl leagues to entertain the masses...

What's the Number One television show in the whole wide world?

(crowd) The Running Man!

Yes, it's The Running Man! Four hundred square blocks of danger, destruction, demoliton, and death! Watch the excitement unfold live as our full roster of unstoppable network Stalkers give criminals, traitors, and enemies of the state exactly what they deserve! Sundays, 8:00 to 11:00 on ICS Channel 1. Be there!

Produced in cooperation with the Zone Four Department of Justice. All rights reserved.

The Running Man: America's Favorite Game Show!

~Umi

Well, all the prisoners are hooked up to hot-sim VR.

Shut off the biofeedback filter, slam the entire population with area-modified Blackout until they're all absolutely insensate. Spam until the power does fail, and you'll have a population of prisoners who are completely helpless.

Alternatively, Black Hammer, and blame it on the power going down.

Still gotta say, passive security is often the best security. If you need a maglock door to stay closed except for authorized entry, you build the maglock such that when the power goes out, it defaults to a locked position - you build it so that when it fails, it's still secure.

Same with these prisoners. They're in VR all the time, they aren't exactly going to be getting up and moving around, there's no harm in keeping them shackled and restrained 24/7. Power goes out, VR fails, they're still bound and immobile. Hell, make each VR pod a secure little tank that only opens from the outside with a key. The power goes out, VR fails, prisoners somehow break out of their restraints, they're still inside a locked pod.

Keep adding layers. They get out of the pod somehow, they're still in an isolated cell block. They get out of the cell block, they're still in an isolated wing. They get out of the wing, they're still in the connecting security corridor. They get out of the security corridor, they're still in the the containment facility. They get out of the containment facility, they're still in the walled compound. They get out of the walled compound, they're still inside the security perimeter. They get out of the security perimeter, they're still in the middle of nowhere, or on an island, or whatever.

Unless they're exceptionally lucky or exceptionally capable, no prisoner is getting out of all that mess without serious outside help in a physical form. They've still got tons of layers of security to contend with, and along the way there are going to be people with machine guns ready to convince them to return to their cells. You'd essentially have to have an outside force storm the place and secure the entire compound to effect an escape from the outside.

Now, sure, the famed Bear-Who-Walks-Through-Walls could get out. But guys like that get put in special containment to begin with.

~Umi

Ok, to take it in a different direction were not looking for a hypothetical super prison. What we're after is a setting that is realistic but playable. You could build an inescapable super prison nowadays, but that's not where most prisoners are kept.

I'm thinking forced burnout is illegal, cruel and unusual punishment. So are most of the other things mentioned. I would however expect it would be likely to build prisons in high background count areas, and with Faraday cages in the walls.

The problem is, in any world where Magic is rare and powerful, you're going to need special prisons to contain those with magic.

Consequently, if you want a prison with lower security for your campaign, it almost has to exclude Awakened characters - they're too much of a threat to mix in with the mundanes.

Also, remember, this is a Dystopia we're talking about - prison in the modern day should seem tame and inviting by comparison.

~Umi

I would have to agree with Umi, if your characters are "average" Shadowrunners, they are people who regularly infiltrate, rob, kidnap, damage, kill, assassinate, blackmail, extort, or work for the richest people and corporations in the world. If they got caught doing something in the above list to the wrong people, they are going to Supermax, because that is where they belong. Now if they were messing with the low end of society, how are they even going to prison.

The same way every other prisoner does would likely be the easiest. Of course, by your intent, Faelan, this would more likely mean that said shadowrunners are intentionally going to prison, and it's likely work related.

You obviously must be with THEM...

Either work related, or they would be cut a deal. Even prison wardens, mayors, local politicos, and even occasionally the police need some dirty work done by deniable assets. "Yeah I got you for ending some gangers, and I know that is probably just the tip of the iceberg. We can throw the book at you, or..." Not going to jail for more than a drunk tank overnight, unless they need an inmate roughed up and squeezed for info, you know like where the diamonds are, or the drugs, or the ubiquitous "shipment". So if it was not work related to begin with it would quickly become work related.

I didn't say we're after a lower security prison, just one that has to comply with State and Federal laws rather than a hypothetical future super prison.

Just to add, we're not going to be inside on a run - we were on a run that went bad and we got arrested (some with irrefutable evidence against them). Now in the past we've always treated prison as death when it comes to characters, but on this occasion the GM was thinking 'Here's an interesting setting that we've never explored before' so we're going to run with it for a bit and see how it goes.

This discussion has, perhaps understandably, gone the same way as the one about the Military and WiFi did. People get an idea of what it should or shouldn't be like based on some factors and portray it as the way it would definitely be. The reality would always be more grey.

I've actually found the source now anyway, Critias was correct - it is in State of the Art 2064. This states such things as 'The stories about what happens to cyber in prison are usually exaggerated: it's simply too expensive for them go go and rip out your ware, when it's easier, cheaper, and less invasive to simply disable it.'