Under previous editions, the only form of Reaction and/or Initiative Enhancement that counted when you were in control of a vehicle was the vehicle control rig. Other Reaction/Init enhancements in the forms of magic, adept powers, and implants, were not allowed to be counted when controlling a vehicle.
Try as I might, I can't seem to find anything that states this is still the case in SR4. Has the philosophy behind this changed under the new edition, or am I just missing some disclaimer somewhere?
Full Version: Vehicle Combat Initiative
not sure as i dont have a book to refrence but from what i gather here on the forum it seems that as long as your in AR rather then VR then physical ractions count, be them wired or not. go VR and only the type of sim your running counts. atleast thats how it looks to me so far...
yup which means the drivbing adept can be significantly better than a rigger now
well, as both will max out at x number of initiative passes, the only diff will be who can go first...
hmm, that makes me think how they will present move-by-wire in the new system. even more initiative passes?
hmm, that makes me think how they will present move-by-wire in the new system. even more initiative passes?
okay the adept will max out at 4 initiave passes and from what i have read the rigger maxes out at 3
the adept can also have more dice
the adept can also have more dice
| QUOTE (hobgoblin) |
| well, as both will max out at x number of initiative passes, the only diff will be who can go first... hmm, that makes me think how they will present move-by-wire in the new system. even more initiative passes? |
The book states all over that the max is 4 for init passes. Makes me wonder if they will even make it....
4 init passes with extra actions in the first and second init passes 
| QUOTE (Kremlin KOA) |
| okay the adept will max out at 4 initiave passes and from what i have read the rigger maxes out at 3 the adept can also have more dice |
nasty truely nasty.
but as i said, im base my view of things on the stuff i have read so far on this forum, not on the text in the book itself...
| QUOTE (Kremlin KOA) |
| okay the adept will max out at 4 initiave passes and from what i have read the rigger maxes out at 3 the adept can also have more dice |
However the rigger with a control rig will need 1 less success for any test with a threshold >1, which equates to about a +4 die bonus.
+3 bonus dice surely.
Anyway, about 4 being the absolute limit for initiative passes (which has nothing much to do with this thread) - does that mean that the option of using an Edge point to get another pass is no longer an option for someone with, for example, Wired Reflexes 3? Or is it one of those "limits" that's not really a limit.
MBW would be interesting, and I'd imagine they'll add it in somehow. Although extra actions seems a bit too powerful, considering everyone else is banned from having more than 4 (or 5 perhaps).
Apologies for perpetuating the thread hijacking.
Anyway, about 4 being the absolute limit for initiative passes (which has nothing much to do with this thread) - does that mean that the option of using an Edge point to get another pass is no longer an option for someone with, for example, Wired Reflexes 3? Or is it one of those "limits" that's not really a limit.
MBW would be interesting, and I'd imagine they'll add it in somehow. Although extra actions seems a bit too powerful, considering everyone else is banned from having more than 4 (or 5 perhaps).
Apologies for perpetuating the thread hijacking.
| QUOTE (page 134) |
| No character can act in more than 4 Initiative Passes in a Combat Turn (even if they spend Edge). |
A possibility for Move-By-Wire is that it pushes the character up to the always-first tier of initiative, but that's pretty damn powerful given that normally you have to spend a point of Edge every time you want to get that.
Maybe an extra Free Action? Although that is likely going to be a relatively rare use. *shrug*
P.S. DSF is one big thread highjack.
| QUOTE (Zeel De Mort) |
| +3 bonus dice surely. |
Depends on how you look at it. If you look at it from the law of averages, it's +3. If you look at it from the standpoint of spending dice to buy an automatic hit, then a -1 to Threshold is worth the 4 dice you would have had to spend to get 1 hit.
| QUOTE |
| Apologies for perpetuating the thread hijacking. |
I'm the one who started this thread, and I don't consider it hijacked in the least. I wanted to spark off a discusion of this particular change in the game, and tangently related subjects, like initiative.
Aha, fair enough. 4 passes is the absolute limit no matter what. At least that's definite. I shall read my books more closely in future.
Point taken about +3/+4 dice as well.
Point taken about +3/+4 dice as well.
Move-by-wire could easily just push your actions up... IP 1:act once at normal Initative, act again after everyone else, IP:2 Act at normal initiative, act again after everyone else. IP:3 no more actions for Mr.Move-by-Wire...
This could end up being a drawback sometimes, though, but that may be the price you pay for acting before you even have the time to react, much less think twice about what you are doing...
(Anyway, not really a suggestion - just a thought)
This could end up being a drawback sometimes, though, but that may be the price you pay for acting before you even have the time to react, much less think twice about what you are doing...
(Anyway, not really a suggestion - just a thought)
Vehicle drivers use their physical initiative. There's nothing about that being limited to unaugmented initiative.
As for Move By Wire, they may have it provide additional dice for the Athletics Skill Group and for Infiltration. Fine control added, but not game breaking.
As for Move By Wire, they may have it provide additional dice for the Athletics Skill Group and for Infiltration. Fine control added, but not game breaking.
| QUOTE (Clyde @ Oct 24 2005, 09:32 PM) |
| As for Move By Wire, they may have it provide additional dice for the Athletics Skill Group and for Infiltration. Fine control added, but not game breaking. |
Could also bump up movement rates a little.
Or we can just break the rule. After all, it was made in the main rule book, where there is no Move by wire. Move by wire is the thing, and the ONLY thing, that can give you that last extra initiative pass. Take that, Adepts!
| QUOTE (PlatonicPimp) |
| Or we can just break the rule. After all, it was made in the main rule book, where there is no Move by wire. Move by wire is the thing, and the ONLY thing, that can give you that last extra initiative pass. Take that, Adepts! |
Oh, I don't think the Adepts will be too terribly put off when 6 months down the line the M-B-W guy dies of one or more of the nasty brain disfunctions that piece of hardware induces. Though it is 2070 now, maybe they've finally worked the bugs out.
I don't think they would have, after all, there has to be a good drawback if it breaks the rules. See my cyberware thread for how I put Move by wire into SR4.
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