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hermit
Something I wanted to share. I made it primarily to resolve a few arguments among my players about character sizes. It visualizes the different races' relative sizes, with each character (irrespective of race) being average size. Made almost entirely with oficial Shadowrun art save for the Norms, who are Tron and Syndicate concepts, respectively.

Deviant Art version (some people seem to have problems with Photoshop).

It's still quite beta, and may be subject to changes and additions in the future.

Update: now with (metric) scaling!
Mantis
Nice. There is such a picture in the SR4A book already though the troll in that one seems to be trying to hide his height. I like that yours offers male and females for comparison and is in meters.
SpellBinder
Yeah, like that troll's squattin' down even though he's got an easy extra 30cm to stand up.

Here's another that I saw that also helps with size comparisons: Lone Star Line-Up

And something that likely inspired some of the "How Do Trolls Fit In Society" in Run Faster: Pint At A Bar
MYST1C
QUOTE (hermit @ Jan 21 2015, 12:18 AM) *
Something I wanted to share. I made it primarily to resolve a few arguments among my players about character sizes. It visualizes the different races' relative sizes, with each character (irrespective of race) being average size. Made almost entirely with oficial Shadowrun art save for the Norms, who are Tron and Syndicate concepts, respectively.
That's a really nice (and informative) piece!
Now imagine this comparison for SR1-3 when trolls were described as averaging 2.8m in height instead of SR4/5's 2.4m
Medicineman
QUOTE (Mantis @ Jan 20 2015, 11:25 PM) *
Nice. There is such a picture in the SR4A book already though the troll in that one seems to be trying to hide his height. ......

No, he urgently needs to Pee thats all wink.gif !

and the elf is not carrying a Ladys Handbag, its a Helmet wink.gif

QUOTE
instead of SR4/5's 2.4m …

2.5 Meters
sometimes 10 Centimeters make a big difference wink.gif


Hough!
Medicineman
Sengir
Nice job, certainly better than the bathroom figures I posted a while back biggrin.gif

But you made a mistake regarding the average sizes and sexual dimorphism: If the average man is taller than the average woman and there are roughly equal numbers of both, the average of the overall population should sit right in the middle between the two. Your diagram equates the overall average with the male average, which would require a seriously screwed up population distribution wink.gif
hermit
Well, I assumed the average size presented was indeed male average; given that models used were male up to SR4, that seemed at least implied. I guess one could also extrapolate average male and emale heights based on population ratio (usually 1:1.07) and apply those, but that would have to take into account birth mortality rates with orks, or instance, life expectancy and possibly notably diferent gender ratios (dryads, which figure into elves, don't have a 1:1.07 ratio after all, and life expectancy of females in orks and trolls would be very important there, too).

But seriously? That lacks demographic in-world data. If that's available, great. Until then, I'll just stick with the assumption 1990s gaming books were a tad male centric. wink.gif
Mantis
Good plan. The average height for human males corresponds to the average North American male height. If it was supposed to represent males and females in height, then either women got taller and men remained the same or men got taller and women didn't to pull that average up. Easier to assume it represents the male average.
Medicineman
QUOTE
That lacks demographic in-world data. If that's available, great.

there is a modicum of Demographics in Run Faster (IIRC 39% Homo Sapien Sapiens, etc)

with a demographic Dance
Medicineman
Sengir
QUOTE (hermit @ Jan 21 2015, 01:29 PM) *
But seriously? That lacks demographic in-world data. If that's available, great.

Granted, SR books provide plenty of examples for the old wisdom that averages can be confusing. Like SR4A saying that most humans are the average size and weight, or the frequent assumption that orks don't make it much past 35.

But like it or not, you are already assuming "normal" statistics. There were more women than Africa in early SR, still your representative of female dwarfs is black. We don't even know if there is any sex dimorphism among metas -- and possibly even norms lessened the gap. So you might as well assume that the average is a total average and dwarfs are not that tiny wink.gif

QUOTE
Until then, I'll just stick with the assumption 1990s gaming books were a tad male centric. wink.gif

I'm going to start a totally non-misogynist consumer boycott against you for that implication wink.gif
hermit
QUOTE
There were more women than Africa in early SR, still your representative of female dwarfs is black.

I went or a racial mix and average sizes, whcih are within the phenotypical spread of all human ethnicities. I'm actually rather happy not to have a roster of purely White characters.

QUOTE
We don't even know if there is any sex dimorphism among metas -- and possibly even norms lessened the gap. So you might as well assume that the average is a total average and dwarfs are not that tiny

1,20 meters isn't really much. DevArt has been updated though, so check. Dwarfs have grown a bit.

I don't really see why sexual dimorphism should change, really. It has refused to change throughout the drastic size changes in Europe the past 100 years, after all. And there was something about an average 10% size gap somewhere. Possibly in an old core book. I think at least.
JesterZero
The dwarf-adjusted version with the scale is quite nice. Thank you.
Sengir
QUOTE (hermit @ Jan 21 2015, 11:57 PM) *
I went or a racial mix and average sizes, whcih are within the phenotypical spread of all human ethnicities. I'm actually rather happy not to have a roster of purely White characters.

Sure, but if your reasoning is that the average applies only to males because 90s RPGs were a bit male-centric, by the same token the average can only apply to europeans.

QUOTE
1,20 meters isn't really much. DevArt has been updated though, so check. Dwarfs have grown a bit.

Yep, looks more compatible with the rest of mankind. Now if only there were images with the correct proportions for dwarfs (shorter legs) and trolls (gorilla arms)...
Medicineman
@ Sengir
No Gorilla Arms for SR5 Trolls anymore. They "vanished" with the 4th Edition (when they Shrunk to 2,50 )smile.gif

He who dances with Gorillaz
Medicineman
Sternenwind
From where is the pic of the male troll?
hermit
Early Shadowrun Online development art.
Sternenwind
Ah, found it

Thank you very much.
I am playing around with Chicago and this Troll looks like something I could need.
Lewis Hartfield, Hazard Pay p.37
Sengir
QUOTE (Medicineman @ Jan 24 2015, 10:34 AM) *
@ Sengir
No Gorilla Arms for SR5 Trolls anymore. They "vanished" with the 4th Edition

Well, I consider that as simply an omission wink.gif
Adarael
Love the inclusion of the SR: HK characters in this. biggrin.gif
Sengir
QUOTE (Adarael @ Jan 28 2015, 05:20 AM) *
Love the inclusion of the SR: HK characters in this. biggrin.gif

You are hopelessly biased nyahnyah.gif
Adarael
Guilty as charged!
hermit
QUOTE (Adarael @ Jan 28 2015, 05:20 AM) *
Love the inclusion of the SR: HK characters in this. biggrin.gif

Couldn't have done the chart properly without them actually. Try to find full-body art for female cberpunk dwarfs (African at that) ... and Asian Orks are also not that easy to come by.
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