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Oracle
The rules text for the Pain Editor states:

QUOTE
This cluster of specialized nervous tissue
is designed to filter sensory stimuli. If the pain editor
is active, this allows you to ignore all injury modifiers,
and you even stay conscious when your Stun Condition
Monitor is completely full. You feel no pain—you’re
blissfully, dangerously, recklessly unaware of the extent
of damage you’ve taken without either performing a
self-examination (Observe In Detail action) or being informed
by a biomonitor (p. 450). While active, the pain
editor increases your Willpower by 1 and decreases your
Intuition by 1. Additionally, all tactile Perception Tests
you make receive a dice pool modifier of –4.


This means:

- no wound modifiers from either stun or physical damage.
- no falling uncounscious to the floor because of stun damage
- while using a simple and cheap biomonitor I am still aware of my character's damage tracks
- while actice: Willpower + 1, Intuition -1
- tactile perception -4

Two questions:

Why should anyone buy Damage Compensators?
Isn't this a little bit unbalanced?
Stahlseele
If you want to play the Terminator, this is kinda sorta needed.
It will literally make you unstopable in combat.

And balanced . . well, depends.
bannockburn
Because damage compensators have no drawbacks whatsoever (apart from their monetary and essence costs).
Checking a biomonitor is a simple action, reducing intuition also reduces initiative. Not knowing how much damage is thrown at you to decide about using Edge on the soak roll is also a drawback.
Also: 18F. Damage compensators are available at character creation (at max level 4) without the use of restricted gear.
Stahlseele
You still think they are unbalanced?
Tell me how many times you have seen them in use?

Because they are largely useless.
IN SR, it is always better to take something that will allow you to not have to take damage in the first place, instead of something that will help with ignoring damage that you have taken.
Oracle
Damage Compensators seem way too expensive to me.

In full combat loadout my (very fresh) character is now wearing around 23 points of armor and has 7 points of body for damage resistance. While that doesn't make him a true tank, it still means that most gunfire will only do stun damage. This makes the Pain Editor a very attractive - and cost effective - option.

Sengir
QUOTE (bannockburn @ Apr 4 2015, 01:06 PM) *
Also: 18F. Damage compensators are available at character creation (at max level 4) without the use of restricted gear.

But on the high end, DCs have a pretty much ridiculous 36F. Having a cheap entry with higher long-term cost is fine, but Essence and Availability become a bit extreme at some point wink.gif
Umidori
I've never seen Pain Editors used on PCs, ever. They're expensive, hard to get, and most players feel if they're taking that much damage to begin with, they're doing something very wrong.

~Umi
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Umidori @ Apr 4 2015, 06:09 PM) *
I've never seen Pain Editors used on PCs, ever. They're expensive, hard to get, and most players feel if they're taking that much damage to begin with, they're doing something very wrong.

~Umi


I've seen 'em in play a time or two.
I do agree, though, that I would much rather design a character to avoid being hit (no need to soak damage if you are only rarely hit), with decent damage staging capabilities, than to design a character to just tank along. While that can be fun for some, it just bores me to tears, and that way lies madness.
Umidori
I kinda put them in the same category as K-10: a great GM tool for turning a disposeable NPC into a mini-boss of sorts.

Players get really worried (and more importantly, creative) when the team pumps several clips into an enemy and they just won't fall down.

~Umi
bannockburn
QUOTE (Sengir @ Apr 5 2015, 01:49 AM) *
But on the high end, DCs have a pretty much ridiculous 36F. Having a cheap entry with higher long-term cost is fine, but Essence and Availability become a bit extreme at some point wink.gif

That's entirely true, yes. Add to this that SR5 damage compensators are weaker than in previous editions and the case can be made that pain editors are desirable.
However, for the price of one pain editor, you can buy rating 12 damage compensators, and still have half left over (sidenote: are these prices missing a 0? SR4 DCs were 15k per level). They are very, very useful at character creation, too, and owing to their low entry price can easily be upgraded to higher grades as well.
Shemhazai
QUOTE (Oracle @ Apr 4 2015, 11:34 AM) *
- while actice: Willpower + 1, Intuition -1
- tactile perception -4

I would interpret it as -4 to tactile perception tests only while active. Is that the consensus here? The RAW can be interpreted to mean always -4.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (bannockburn @ Apr 5 2015, 02:09 AM) *
That's entirely true, yes. Add to this that SR5 damage compensators are weaker than in previous editions and the case can be made that pain editors are desirable.
However, for the price of one pain editor, you can buy rating 12 damage compensators, and still have half left over (sidenote: are these prices missing a 0? SR4 DCs were 15k per level). They are very, very useful at character creation, too, and owing to their low entry price can easily be upgraded to higher grades as well.


SR5 Modified the Prices for the Damage Compensators, they are correct.
bannockburn
That, or "correct". wink.gif
Personally: Not buying it. Just about every other piece of ware went massively up in prices, and something as useful as this gets divided by 7,5? Even with the nerf, that's pretty ridiculous.
Umidori
QUOTE (Shemhazai @ Apr 5 2015, 02:50 AM) *
I would interpret it as -4 to tactile perception tests only while active. Is that the consensus here? The RAW can be interpreted to mean always -4.

The rules specifically invoke "tactile" perception, which is touch, and touch alone.

~Umi
Stahlseele
so you have to look wether or not you have actually drawn your weapon.
and are not just holding your fingers in the pistol shape.
Umidori
I'd say active Pain Editor is kinda like having your arm "fall asleep" and go numb.

~Umi
Glyph
QUOTE (bannockburn @ Apr 5 2015, 09:54 AM) *
That, or "correct". wink.gif
Personally: Not buying it. Just about every other piece of ware went massively up in prices, and something as useful as this gets divided by 7,5? Even with the nerf, that's pretty ridiculous.

Tank-ware went down, though. Just compare SR4 and SR5 prices for orthoskin or bone density augmentation.
bannockburn
Like the pain editor, that went up 8k? wink.gif

But yeah, you're right. It's merely my gut telling me this is wrong smile.gif
Oracle
My feeling when creating my streetsam was that being "tanky" with about 30 damage resistance dice including armor came very cheap. The character is optimized high agility and dodging.
Sengir
QUOTE (bannockburn @ Apr 5 2015, 11:09 AM) *
However, for the price of one pain editor, you can buy rating 12 damage compensators, and still have half left over

...assuming you are able to get your hands on a 36 F item. If it wasn't for the R*3 F Availability, they would indeed make a great "cheap and dirty" option, but alas...
bannockburn
Yes, I was merely referring to the pure monetary cost. Essence at R12 is also far more expensive than the pain editor. If you can stem 18F, you can always get the editor.
Draco18s
QUOTE (Umidori @ Apr 5 2015, 04:08 PM) *
The rules specifically invoke "tactile" perception, which is touch, and touch alone.


I think the question was "all the time, -4" vs. "while active, -4." Not what test it applied to.
Angelone
QUOTE
While active, the pain editor increases your Willpower by 1 and decreases your Intuition by 1. Additionally, all tactile Perception Tests you make receive a dice pool modifier of –4.


Yes, the -4 is just while active.
Stahlseele
Somebody WILL tell you that it could be read both ways, wanna bet?
Umidori
Just while active. It's editing out your ability to feel pain by editing out your ability to feel period. When you turn it off, you can feel things again - including those sucking chest wounds you didn't notice until just now, aaaahhhh!

~Umi
bannockburn
And the betrayal of your SO ;(
Angelone
QUOTE (bannockburn @ Apr 7 2015, 04:21 AM) *
And the betrayal of your SO ;(


That made me giggle madly. "Susie why!!!!"
Sengir
QUOTE (bannockburn @ Apr 6 2015, 06:58 PM) *
Yes, I was merely referring to the pure monetary cost. Essence at R12 is also far more expensive than the pain editor. If you can stem 18F, you can always get the editor.

If it was easier to get the Essence would IMO be fine: Cheap and available at every Chop Shop, but less efficient and screws up your body, sounds like the definition of cheap 'ware.

Alternatively, lower the Essence: Cutting Edge and even cheaper than the regular option, but TPTB keep it under wraps
Voran
Back in the day, the GM would play out basically with, "I'm not telling you how much dmg that did." So the narrative example works as, "Shooting and looting, until you woops suddenly drop dead." I think I've only seen it...twice? Otherwise mostly used for GM-threats. No reasonable runner would have it, but a corp might load up its combat monsters on it so they serve some extra fodder use until they die.
Miri
QUOTE (Umidori @ Apr 6 2015, 06:36 PM) *
Just while active. It's editing out your ability to feel pain by editing out your ability to feel period. When you turn it off, you can feel things again - including those sucking chest wounds you didn't notice until just now, aaaahhhh!

~Umi


Sucking Chest wounds. Natures way of saying "Slow down!"
Snow_Fox
I've always preferred not to get hit, pain is your friend, it tells you you're doing something wrong.
from the pure number crunching sure it's great but you're also putting yourself in a place where you rely on the tool you might overlook other plans
from a pure roleplaying aspect you should see the latest Harry Dresden book "skingame" as the winter night mantle works the same way and his body is taking a serious pounding.
great during a fight but you pay for it later
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