Hi,

tonight the players are going to encounter a regular security guard turned true form insect spirit.

Insect Spirits are created with the Inhibition-power (Street Grimoire 196). A flesh form has Immunity To Normal Weapons (SR5 397). Immunity to normal weapons gives Essence (x2) Hardened Armor.

My template for the security guard is the Corporate Security Guy (SR5 382) - he has Essence 6 and an Armor Jacket rating 12. Essence 6 means Hardened Armor 12.

Does this stack with his Armor Jacket? Personally I'd say yes as one is physical armor and the other is a magic "forcefield".

If so, how does is stack? Armor 24 (12+12) whereof 12 is hardened?

A.

Since the Armor spell stacks with regular armor, it isn't a stretch to assume that Immunity to Normal Weapons stacks as well.

If you assume that it does stack, then yes, the guard would roll 24 dice, any attack with a modified damage value of 12 or less simply bounces off, and he gets 6 automatic successes against the damage. (Obviously those numbers are modified by AP)

Crazy - especially as it isn't dependent on the force of the insect spirit. Even Force 1 insect spirits will have this protection.

Well, I can foresee a group of runners getting their asses handed to themselves in old-fashioned melee combat tonight.

If anything, it's a good Call For Action for a scenario.

A.

You should use the spirit's essence, not the guard's. With Inhabitation, the spirit can enhance (depending on type) all the guard's physical stats and overwrites his mental and special stats. If it is a force 6 spirit, then it has 6 essence and 12 hardened armour. If it is a force 4 spirit then it has a 4 essence and 8 hardened armour, not 12. This is the way spirit Immunity to Normal Weapons has always been handled.

EDIT: I note you say the guard is turned True Form and then latter talk about Flesh Form. These are very different things. The True Form insect will look like a giant insect of whatever type, not a guard, human or otherwise and the guard will have been destroyed completely. Basically use the stats of the spirit alone.
If it is Flesh Form then it looks like the guard only with the bug doing the driving. It will have the knowledge and skills of both.
The point of clarifying this is that the True Form won't be wearing external armour. No one makes size XXXXL mosquito shaped armour jackets. Flesh Forms also have some slightly different powers and don't get the attribute boosts that a Hybrid Form or True Form might.

Sorry about mixing up the trueform & fleshform spirits - it was unprecise.

I - of course - meant a fleshform.

I think your idea about usiing the spirits essence makes a lot of sense. Force becomees relevant and after all, the magic part of the merge is coming from the summoned spirit.

A.

Heya Adhoc. Here's the ruling we came up with for Missions (And was done in conjunction with Jason Hardy and some of the freelancer pool):

So be mindful of the consequences and potential outcomes. This will still likely be fine if its just one guard, it'll probably give sufficient "oh...crap" reactions when most of their stuff is at best doing Stun damage even when AP, and might encourage them to remember things like calling shots or the like. This gets a bit potentially easier if the group is magical heavy, less so if they're normal tech oriented. Afterall, with this level of armor, even what...vehicle/heavy rated Laser weaponry only has a -10 AP rating? Pistols with AP, is around -5? Assault rifles -6?

Again, I think its good with 1 guy, its always nice to keep pc's on their toes, "One guard? We got this." But even adding 1 or 2 more of those guards can quickly turn into a meatgrinder vs the PCs.

It's good you guys finalized this as a rule. We've always done it this way and I think most others do too but still, it's good to have it in some sort of official capacity.

I was working on the Missions FAQ update to cover the new magic book, and since we're in Chicago, folks seemed to think this might eventually come up.

I dunno why they might think that. *shrug*

So if you come across a sec guard holding a ScarBucks Soykaf with 12 sugars, watch out!

SoyBucks, actually.

So what happens when a fleshform inhabits a guard wearing armor, and then Mungo knocks the fleshform unconscious and wears IT strapped on top of his own armor as a sort of (in)human shield?

~Umi

Mungo explodes in a cloud of Twinkies and Cheese.

I'm not finding an entry for that in the RAW...

*adjusts bifocals*

~Umi

I went from 3rd to 5th, though I have the 4th edition books...
why did the shuffle which insect form has immunity to normal weapons?

In 4E, all forms of Inhabitation have ITNW. It's not specifically stated that True Forms do, but they're literally just spirits, and spirits have ITNW by default.

~Umi

Where does it state that all spirits have ITNW?

If you mean regular spirits pg 296 in 4thEd 20thAni has the Materialization power listing as follows:


So ItNW is not listed directly as a power for spirits as the ItNW only applies when they are materialized on the physical plane and thus a subpower resulting from the Materialization power.


Street Magic picks up from here on pg100 in the side bar on Insect Merges:

So again, as it has the Materialization power, when it materializes on the physical plane it will have ItNW.


oooh,.... twinkies... nomnomnomnom

Yes, sorry, didn't explain it fully. Inhabitation spirits can only "Materialize" via inhabiting something, and when they are True Forms, the physical host is fully consumed, leaving only the spirit in a material form, which is where they get the ITNW.

~Umi

@Sendez my bad...I didn't process the 4e in your quote...I thought you meant all spirits in 5e.
My bad.

That's 2 'my bad' (well three now) and I think that should cover my embarrassment.

I am against embarassment over mistakes! Mistakes are inevitable! They are a natural outcome, one that cannot be avoided, and that should not be seen as shameful!

Break free from the tyranny of perfectionism! Be accepting of error where no harm is done! We are all imperfect, and we shouldn't be consumed with guilt or anxiety for want of the impossible ideal of perfection!

So chin up, stick out your chest, and say out loud, "I messed up, but that's okay!".

~Umi

It's Bull. Don't be stupid, or he will kill you. People have called me up at 10am to put me on a conference call where they all confirmed that if you are stupid, yes, Bull will kill you.

Uhh... okay? Not quite sure I've ever witnessed Bull behave aggresively in the least, but sure? I'm sure if Bull minded my being silly, I'd be the first to know.

That said, while I'm obviously playing the fool above for the sake of a hokey sort of joking farcicality, at the same time I'm not sure it's all that funny or in terribly good taste to make a joke that essentially just boils down to being insulting and calling someone else stupid... so...

~Umi

Im sorry. Its an old signature of his from about 10 years ago, and Its how I remember him best.

Edit: the idea of using an insect spirit as a human shield is one of those things that, back in the day, would result in Bull making you explode.

Guess Bull mellowed with age, like a fine wine or a particularly fragrant cheese or umm, maybe I should go eat before I get in trouble. These comparisons are getting worse.

I dunno, I for one would probably enjoy sharing a bit of cheese and wine with Bull, and maybe chat about something OTHER than Shadowrun - like movies.

~Umi