Guys,

One of my friends have asked me to assist him in trying to stat out the weapons for a "Wild West" style game that is intended to use SR4A rules (though I can probably sell him on adding an "accuracy" trait to cap no. of hits). However, before I start trawling the internet for information on the weapons from the "Wild West" period (I'm not much of a gun nut nor equipped with much detailed knowledge about that period in time), I thought I'd ask you people if any of you should incidentally happen to have done something like that already, and might be willing to send me a copy of your work.

Assuming that's not the case, perhaps someone here could help me out a bit with some info on which weapons there ought to exist in such a setting, and how they perform IRL. I know that old style revolvers were inaccurate as >>bleep<< outside of a few meters, but beyond that I'm relatively stomped.

Links to sites with the sought information is also quite wellcome.

Thanks in advance people


/Kyrel

Well, dvs should be adjusted down: black powder is far less energetic than smokeless powder. Using modern shot shells, for example, in an old shotgun can blow the gun up.

Also, theres a lot of rifles that were chambered for the same rounds as pistols. The most common seem to be .44-40s.

Im delivering flowers now, but afterwards i will try to dig out my gurps books on modern guns and work some stats up and rules up for ya.

I would highly appreciate that Wothanoz, and thanks for the reply so far

Check for the Fire & Steel SR5 PDF from CGL
they've got oldstyle Firearms in there
( you have to convert them to 4A though ,but thats quite easy)



Don't !
My advice would be to simply forget the ACC
ImO its not a good rules Mechanism and either causes Grief for the Players or its of no real use because it doesn't occur ingame ( so its useless)


Hough!
Medicineman

Look up Bob Munden on Youtube.

Haven't specifically done this but thought about it. Chief difference is soft lead bullets (instead of FMJ) and lower energy black powder rather than smokeless powder. Basically, if you want to keep it simple you could reduce Power significantly across the board and reduce range by a certain percentage.

Within effective range, the blackpowder weapons are accurate if they're rifled. See if you can find footage on YouTube of "Cowboy Action" competitions where people engage a variety of targets with historical blackpowder weapons. You should see that the accuracy isn't terrible.

I think the techniques were less advanced or different which might lead to less accuracy than today in some situations but it may not be worth it to implement this in game. Old revolvers were designed to be held one handed so you can't use a modern revolver grip. (Tried it on a cap and ball revolver). However the old revolvers sit very comfortably in one hand. Your modern accuracy and stability might be reduced by the one handed style, but the one handed style was better for firing from horseback.

I would say one of the biggest differences is less reliability. Old blackpowder weapons are less likely to fire when intended. Maybe make all glitches be a failure to fire or something like that.

Fanning a revolver should probably allow a semi-auto burst, but at a substantial penalty.

And glitches as failures to fire sounds great. For some weapons(like the Colt Dragoon, if I remember correctly), a critical glitch should probably be the gun exploding in your hand. They did that sometimes.

Also, shotguns! 10 gauges are remarkably more common in a 19th century setting. So, the shotguns should actually be MORE powerful in comparison to modern shotguns. I've never been a fan of the double recoil rule for shotguns, personally. Well, I was when I was 16 and had never shot one. Now, I shoot them all the time, and the recoil isn't really that bad(substantially more than my AK, but not really that bad), and I tend to do a lot of rapid fire drills. Firing with one hand isn't even a big issue(though I do keep the stock tucked into my pocket, and just remove my weak hand, rather than holding the shotgun like a pistol).

Slugs don't exist yet. Well, I mean, people can cast their own, but there's a reason they called'em punkin balls("pumpkin" balls): they're basically just balls of lead, and accuracy should be comparable to any musket(which is to say poor). And without sights of any sort better than a bead sight, you're just basically guessing. Within 15-27yds, you might be able to hit a target reliably(I can use my bead sight to put a slug into a paintcan at those distances, but caveat: modern rifled slugs are a damn sight better than punkin balls), but past that, good luck(There's a reason I put a red dot on my mossberg, because I like shooting slugs at 50-100yds, it's fun to blow up things).

A field expedient slug can be accomplished by scoring the case right behind the wad, so that when fired, that portion of the shell containign the shot breaks off, and flies as one body. It's a reasonably reliable way to get a slug, and it's superior to a punkin ball. Back in the depression, folks were still using carboard hulled shotgun shells, and using this method was useful in the great depression for people to be able to hunt a variety of prey without having to make their own punkin balls. Also, you can open up the shell, dump the shot out into a bowl, melt some wax into it, then spoon it back into the shell and reseal it. The wax will hold the shot together as a solid mass until it hits something. Maybe give punkin' balls a -2 dice pool modifier, and scored or waxshot a -1 modifer.

How was shooting a cap-n-ball colt? I hear they will shoot as fast as lightnin, but ya load'em mite slow.

Yeah, pretty much. It was a pleasure to shoot, but we loaded it using a separate little stand for the cylinder, and there was a significant incidence of failure to fire. When it worked, though, it was accurate, smooth, fast, and felt great in the hand. No wonder some people are such fans of the old revolvers.

Also, what time period? As, after-all, the process of settling the west was already beginning when the civil war(started with muskets, ended with the first machineguns, revolvers and repeating rifles) started. And The Wild Bunch takes place in the 20th century, but still pretty western. The good, The Bad and the Ugly takes place DURING the civil war. For the younger folks, Young Guns is right around the same time period.

I think the mid 70s are the "classic" western setting, but that might just be because the Yellowbow Winchester 1873 model and the Colt Single Action Army.

And, just because it's still theme...

Bout the time my daddy left to fight the big war
I saw my first pistol in a general store
In the general store, i was fifteen
I though it was the finest thing i ever seen
My momma dropped a dozen egs
She really blew up, i didn't understand
My momma says a pistol is the devils right hand

My very first pistol was a cap-n-ball colt
Shoot as fast as lightnin' but you load it mite slow
You load it mite slow
I sound found out, it can gitcha into trouble
But it won't gitcha out.
So then I got myself a colt forty five
Called a peacemaker, but I never knew why
Never knew why
My momma says a pistol is the devils right hand

I got into a card game in a company town
Caught a miner cheatin, I shot the boy down
I shot the boy down, I watched the man fall
Never touched his holster never had a chance to draw
My trial was in the mornin' and the drug me outta bed
As me how I pleaded, not guilty I said
Not guilty I said, nothin touched the trigger but the devil's right hand!

Edit: I didn't get done delivering flowers until after it was dark, and my books are in storage at my uncles property, and he was gone to bed already, so I couldn't go and unlock the storage and rummage around. So, benchmarking the stuff is gonna be delayed atleast a week.