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Joker9125
As a starting character how do you get the most die for sorcery and gun based skills?

As a starting character heres the most sorcery die I could get into a spell

dwarf aspected fire magician

points system
1,000,000 nuyen.gif
Adept 25 points
25 attribute points
13 skill

B - 4
Q - 4
S - 3
C - 6
I - 5
W - 9

9 spell pool
sorcery/spellcasting [5/7]
Conjuring/Summoning [5/7]

Specific spell foci force 6 stubolt
Specific spell category force 6 combat
with remaining 5 spell points get a force 5 fire elemental
force 6 expendable spell foci
plus 2 die for totem

9+7+6+6+5+6+2

41 Dice total

Im still stuck on how to tweak a gun sammie

P.S. I know this character probably isnt number chunched very well but im not trying to number crunch im just focusing on the number of die its possible to get into a single spell.
RedmondLarry
Just observations --
Maybe my math is wrong, but I don't calculate the Spell Pool at 9. It's Int+Will+Magic divide by 3, round down. Also, you can't put more pool into a spellcasting than your skill. (both rules, SR3 p. 180).

You also give +2 dice for Totem. What you're thinking of is an Elemental Mage, a type of full magician described in MitS on p. 17, where it says "Only a Full Hermetic Magician can choose this option." A Fire Elementalist is an Aspected Magician (SR3 p. 160) whose benefit is that he can cast a certain type of spell, not that he gets a bonus casting them.

I also notice 18 points of foci being used in one Combat Turn. Beware Focus Addiction (MitS p. 45).

By the way, nice analysis. It's a useful exercise to try to make strongest guy, biggest body, quickest, etc. Finding a way for a beginning magician to put 37 dice into a spell is pretty cool.
Omega Skip
[Shakes head] Jeebus...

Two things:

(1) You do NOT gain benefits from both an elemental and a totem, because one is for magicians, and the other is for shamans only. Unless you know something about the rules that I don't.
(2) Your spell pool is 6, not nine.

So, that leaves you with 7 (skill) + 6 (pool) + 18 (foci) + 5 (elemental) = 36 dice. Considering that 2 of these sources are one-shot (elemental + exp. focus), the cost for this is somewhere between 9.800 - 14.000 nuyen.gif.

About focus addiction: Once you've blown everything to bits with what might have been the meanest acid ball to ever grace the place you're in, you must roll a Magic[9] test to see if you become a focus addict.

Also, if you intend to ever use such a character, you may want to consider taking the aptitude edge for sorcery. But be prepared to watch out for orbital cows around every corner... or NPC mages who took the same edge.
A Clockwork Lime
Wakyambi Path Magician on the Path of the Warrior casting Stunbolt on February 2nd in the hills of Ulster.

Intelligence 6, Willpower 8, Magic 7, Spell Pool 7, Grade 1 Initiate with Centering, Centering 6, Sorcery 5 (Spellcasting 7), Conjuring 6, same foci as above plus Centering Focus 6, Quickness-linked Combat Skill of Choice 4, Stunbolt 6 [Exclusive-limited for cost], and a Force 6 fire elemental (conjurered immediately after creation). Bonus Attribute: Willpower, Sensitive System and, I dunno, Police Record.

Sorcery (7 dice), Spell Pool (+7), Path of the Warrior (+1), in the winter (+1) on February 2nd (+1), in the hills (+1) of Ulster (+1) using foci (+18), an elemental (+6), Karma Pool (+1), and Centering (+12 Complimentary Dice) = 44+12 dice.

Magic 30, Race 15, Attributes 32, Skills 24, Resources 30, Flaws -6. He sucks in every other way (Bod 1, Qui 2, Str 1, Cha 3 and no other skills whatsoever) imaginable, and he's going to be taking a talisman geas after it, but... that wasn't the point.
Arethusa
Lime, that is positively lovely.
tjn
Pft, the Wakyambi isn't even albino, what the drek man.
Namergon
QUOTE (A Clockwork Lime)
Sorcery (7 dice), Spell Pool (+7), Path of the Warrior (+1), in the winter (+1) on February 2nd (+1), in the hills (+1) of Ulster (+1) using foci (+18), an elemental (+6), Karma Pool (+1), and Centering (+12 Complimentary Dice) = 44+12 dice.


I guess you meant 6 complementary dice for centering?
A Clockwork Lime
No, 12. +6 fom the Centering Focus.

I did leave out a bonus, though. Lifestyle Edge (Manaline). +1 die.
blakkie
To get your Spell Pool up to 7 before initiation Gnome Adpet Path of the Magician. With a geas on the Power Points all spent on Magical Power (forget proper name) gives Magic 8. Normal racial max of Int 6, Will 8 (save that increased attribute edge for Chr to summon). Presto, Spell Pool = (8+8+6)/3 = 22/3 = 7 with an extra 1/3 to spare. You could do it with a normal Dwarf (Will 7), but then you might be tempted to save one of those Spell Pool die for drain. The extra die is also handy for staying concious after conjuring daddy's little helper. It is amazing how much drain you can shrug off with 8 dice.

You also get 48 spell points without spending a nuyen.gif. You'll be able to initiate at least a few times plus have enough points and cash for all the foci you'll ever need to burn out.

The downside is you don't get to play the Feb. 2nd Hills of Ulster Gambit. smile.gif

EDIT: Note this relys on a favourable GM ruling reguarding Magical Power being allowed to be taken 8 times. A solid, although I think not airtight, argument could be made for it falling under the '6' starting limit.
A Clockwork Lime
That requires more than just a "favourable GM ruling" since the adept's Magic Attribute is still a max of 6, thus limiting any of his powers to a maximum rating of 6 above and beyond standard character creation limits.
Zeel De Mort
Ranged, very much off the top of my head:

Physical adept, start off at Initiate Grade 2 or more to get Centering (ranged). Bought using spell points or whatever mechanism is agreeable with your GM.

I'll assume you can have a bit of cultured Bioware at creation, but if not just drop the +1 die from Reflex Recorder...


Assault Rifle (Ares Alpha) 5/7
Centering 6

Rating 6 Centering focus

Enhanced Articulation
Reflex Recorder (Assault Rifle)

Improved Ability (Assault Rifle) 5

Combat Pool 7

I'll call the 6+6 complimentary dice from centering for effect just 6 dice as that's effectively what it is, and some people roll it as such. Tidies up the calculations.


Which leads to... 7+6+1+1+5+7 = 27

If you really are just looking for maximum dice you could use Searching Fire (p103 CC) for another +3 dice.

Grand Total = 30 dice


Eh, okay what did I miss? I'm sure there's plenty. smile.gif

blakkie
QUOTE (A Clockwork Lime)
That requires more than just a "favourable GM ruling" since the adept's Magic Attribute is still a max of 6, thus limiting any of his powers to a maximum rating of 6 above and beyond standard character creation limits.

Oops good catch, I forgot about that limit. wobble.gif I rarely ever find it a factor I guess.

BTW I just noticed that hill hugger better be rolling hot or he won't get that spell off. He needs at least 2 success on the test for the 6(D) physical conjuring drain to keep his brains from squirting out his ears, and then having the fire elemental giving his prone body a funeral pyre treatment to quickly work through the overdamage box. With 'only' Will 8 I'd roughly estimate the odds of surviving at around 50/50, or lower.

Actually, now that I have my books in front of me, I confirmed my suspisions that your character isn't an entirely legal starting PC either. I always interpreted the 50 spell point limit for purchased spell points as a total including those coming with your mage catagory, not that you could buy 50 point on top of the original 25, or 35, spell points. I interpreted it that way because 25,000 x 50 = 1.25mil nuyen.gif , more than any starting character's cash. I count 58 spell points in that character. Even if it was allowed, cashwise that is (58-36)*25,000 = 550,000:nuyen: . Then there are the foci costing (75,000 + 45,000 + 75,000)*6 = 1.17mil nuyen.gif. Less than nothing left for the 6,000:nuyen: for the elemental.

I still like the Ulster Hills play though.
BGMFH
How to get the most dice in combat?

Buy me pizza and Goldschlager.
A Clockwork Lime
Yeah, I'm not surprised about the foci. I didn't put the time in to calculating everything out and was just guestimating in that regard. But if you scratch out the Centering Focus, I'm pretty sure its doable or at least pretty close.

Let's see, 58 Spell Points minus the 18 from the Centering Focus leaves 40, which is only 15 over his limit; 375kY. 1.17mY minus the 450kY for the Focus leaves 720kY. That's 1.095mY or so, just barely over the legal limit. Guess you could shave off a Force point or two somewhere else to account for that. smile.gif

Still leaves him with a ridiculous amount of dice, even if completely stupid and unlikely.
blakkie
Magician's Way get 6 points per Magical Power level. 40 spell points is actually only 4 over his base 36 spell points (yes, bizzare that he gets more than even Aspected mages). With the extra cash and power points that frees up you could -almost- get a Force 1 Power focus. You can definately get a Force 1 Spirit focus to help you out conjuring. Or instead just use 6 spell points to get the elemental at character creation.

P.S. I made a mistake earlier, the conjuring drain is only stun not physical because a Force 6 is still only equal to the Magic attribute, not over it. Still if there is noone there to help by taking on the elemental it will roast you.
Glyph
Okay, here's a barely legal monstrosity who will be focus-addicted worse than a crack ho as soon as he lights up his foci - but damn does he sling a lot of dice.

First, a Wakyambi mage/Path of the Warrior under optimal conditions, shamelessly cadged from Clockwork Lime. +5 dice.

He has Sorcery/Spellcasting at 5/7 and a Spell Pool of 7. 14 dice.

Now to take the 1,000,000 nuyen.gif Resources and load up on those relatively cheap specific spell foci, buying 3 Force: 6 and 1 Force: 3 manabolt foci. Cost: 945,000 nuyen.gif. His 4 remaining Spell Points are used to buy manabolt: 6, Exclusive for -2 Cost. +21 dice.

Use a Force: 6 fire elemental to provide its Aid Sorcery power. Cost: 6,000 nuyen.gif for the conjuring materials and 38,000 nuyen.gif for the library and a 100Mp Data Display. I have spent 989,000 nuyen.gif so far. +6 dice.

Use a Force: 6 expendable combat spell focus. Cost: 9,000 nuyen.gif. I have spent 998,000 nuyen.gif so far, leaving me enough for a low lifestyle and some halfway decent armor. +6 dice.

GRAND TOTAL: 52 dice
Herald of Verjigorm
Cost for expendable spell focus: 1500 * force
1,000,000/1500 = 666 full dice from expendable foci and 1000 nuyen left over.

Toss in the actual munched abilities, and you can get a few more dice to throw.

You never required the ability to do mega-dice casting more than once, and all the foci addiction designs would burn out quicker than this would run out of foci.
Glyph
You can only have a number of foci equal to your Intelligence rating active at one time. Plus, expendable spell foci take an exclusive complex action to use, so you couldn't use more than one at a time (you can only use them with other activated foci and elemental aid sorcery because neither of those require any action to apply their dice). Be a nice nuke of a spell if it did work, though! cool.gif
Zazen
QUOTE (Glyph)
Use a Force: 6 fire elemental to provide its Aid Sorcery power.  Cost: 6,000 nuyen.gif for the conjuring materials and 38,000 nuyen.gif for the library and a 100Mp Data Display.  I have spent 989,000 nuyen.gif so far.  +6 dice.


Since you're doing things after character creation (summoning an elemental), I'll get us almost to 100 by doing something different after character creation:

"First, a Wakyambi mage/Path of the Warrior under optimal conditions, shamelessly cadged from Clockwork Lime. +5 dice.

He has Sorcery/Spellcasting at 5/7 and a Spell Pool of 7. 14 dice."

Cool.

Spend 6 spell points to start with a force 6 fire elemental, +6 dice
Spend 18 to initiate and snag centering, +6 complimentary dice
Spend 1 on our desired spell: Slay Hamster (who says it has to be a force 6 spell? wobble.gif )
Spend 0 to start with Force 1 ally spirit, +1 die


Etiquette (people who deal in really stupid items) 5/7
Good reputation 1
Talismonger contact

Now take 1,000,000 nuyen. Spend zero. Roll 3d6 x ¥100 and get at least a 5. (¥100,500 total)

Availability of Force 67 expendable spell focus: 3/26hrs
7 dice at TN 2, reasonably at least 5 successes. That's less time to procure than it takes to summon a force 6 fire elemental.
Cost: 100,500

So that's 5 + 14 +6 +1 + 67 +[6 complimentary, practically the same as +3]:
Grand Total: 96 Dice

Congratulations, you just killed a hamster with nearly a hundred dice! Hopefully the coolness of that moment makes up for the fact that you're homeless and naked. wink.gif
Herald of Verjigorm
Since we are ignoring some little char-gen rules, expendable spell foci have the same availability regardless of force. That 666 points of foci could be one focus, or could be 6 force 111 foci, etc. Although, yes, by the books at chargen, you would have to buy it as 111 force 6 foci.
blakkie
Creating a funked up hill hugger PC mage: 0 nuyen.gif
Custom designing a Slay Hamster spell: 1 spell point
Obtaining a Tir dA Noggin offically sanctioned Sacrifical Hamster™: 5 nuyen.gif
Buying a Force 67 expendable spell focus: 100,500 nuyen.gif
Finding a mage that is capable and willing to create a Force 67 focus for you: priceless

grinbig.gif

....not that it wouldn't be a pinacle in coolnees to implode said hampster.
Joker9125
since expendable spell foci dont have to be bound i was under the impression that they didnt count for focus addiction.
Joker9125
Im trying to make a Vash the Stampeed character from the Anime TriGun anyone who has seen the show will know how impossible it is to beat this guy. can anyone make a starting character anyway near that good with pistols? Is it even possible? Or should I just let him be an NPC? If youve never seen the show you need to.

EDIT: And yes he has to have the one obvious cyberarm
Dax
Is it possible? Maybe.

Is it wise...... No comment.
Eyeless Blond
Well, first off you'd need an alphaware obvious cyberarm with an implanted cybershotgun (er, right? I've only seen him use the thing once, and I forgot what kind of gun it was), added to a SL-2 in the arm. Make him an adept with lots of improved firearm skills, probably with a geas that he has to publicly embarass himself once every 24 hours to use his power or something. nyahnyah.gif Anything else?
Herald of Verjigorm
If you've seen the series end, you'd know that there is no option in the rules capable of matching Vash. You can make someone of a similar style, but you will be wildly lacking (especially in relation to the third gun and other different abilities of his).
Joker9125
Ya ur right ill be better of making him an NPC in a run. But ive already got a Delgado character made up
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