Hey there, Dumpshock!

Quick question for you. I'm on the back of a motorcycle, chasing down the Batmobile. The Batmobile has 10 Concealed Armor, and an unknown Body rating. I shoot a narrow burst with my Ingram Smartgun X, loaded with EX-Ex, for a damage value of 8 v. B-1. I get 8 hits. The Batmobile dodges 0 of them, so my damage value is now 16 v B-1.

Does the Batmobile ignore the damage outright since my DV wasn't higher than Body+Armor, or is only the Armor hardened?

If that question doesn't make sense, I will try and rephrase it.

Thanks!

Assuming 5th Edition...

Assuming Vehicle Armor is Hardened.
ONLY the Armor is counted to see whether the vehicle needs to actually resist the damage. If Damage is Less than the Armor (modified by Ammo), then no roll is necessary as no damage is inflicted (Hardened Armor resists all damage not exceeding its value; as well, Vehicles take no stun anyways, since damage less than armor value is converted to stun). If the Damage output is higher than the Armor Value (modified by Ammo), the Vehicle MUST resist the damage using Armor + Body (+/- modifiers based upon ammo) and gains half the Armor value as automatic successes.

If the Vehicle Armor is NOT hardened.
You check to see if damage output exceeds Armor Value (modified by Ammo). If it does not, the vehicle takes no damage (vehicles take no stun). If the Damage output is higher than the Armor Value (modified by Ammo), the Vehicle MUST resist the damage using Armor + Body (+/- modifiers based upon ammo).

Oh snap, I'm sorry! I forgot to mention -- 4e! Sorry, Tymeaus! =(

Ahhh... No Worries.

The only difference is that in 4th Edition, Vehicle Armor is not Hardened (not even sure it is hardened in 5th Edition to be honest), so you would have the second scenario.

The Damage is checked against the Modified Armor Value. If the Damage is less than the Armor value, then no damage (Vehicles take no Stun damage). If it is above, it is physical Damage, and then the vehicle resists that damage with Dice Pool of Modified Armor value + Body Value. Any remaining damage is applied to vehicle.

So, just so I'm understanding you...

I compared my modified DV (16, in this case) to his Armor Rating (Concealed Armor, let's say it's 10 for the sake of fairness). Because 16>10, I deal damage? Or would it be Armor+Body? 16 v. 9+B (EX-Ex is B-1, so 10+B-1=9+B)? As long as the car has a body of 8, since ties go to the attacker I believe, my gun deals no damage?

Well... First you cannot count the Burst Fire Damage as part of that calculation.

So Ingram 10 w/Ex Ex Ammo is base 6p -1 AP.
You have 8 Net Hits... bringing that to 14p -1 AP (+2 DV for Short Narrow Burst Fire)

Damage comparison is 14p > 9 Modified Armor Value.
Vehicle takes Real Damage.

Add the Narrow Burst DV to 14 to obtain the 16p Damage. Still AP -1
Vehicle resists with Armor (9) + Body (Lets assume a Body of 10).
So we now have a Dice pool to resist Damage of 19 Dice (Armor 9+Body 10).
Roll the 19 Dice, any hits reduce the 16P damage. Remaining Damage gets applied to the Vehicle.

ONLY ARMOR is calculated to determine if the vehicle takes initial damage or not. ANY damage not greater than the Modified Armor Value does no damage at all (Vehicles take no stun). ANY damage greater than Modified Armor Value results in a Damage Resistance roll by the vehicle.

As an additional Clarification... AP does NOT modify BODY, it only modifies ARMOR.

Make Sense?

Fabulous. Thank you!

My Pleasure.

Just a small correction, but vehicle armour is hardened in both editions. That is why you need to exceed its value with the damage to punch through.

That's not exactly true, at least for 5E. Hardened Armor is a specific critter power that basically does what you're saying, but it also provides a certain number of automatic hits on the Damage Resistance test. I don't recall vehicles having that benefit. Even the Hardened Mil-Spec Armor in R&G references the Critter Power when describing what Hardened Armor means. Probably unnecessarily confusing, but there you go.

Vehicle Armor ACTS like Hardened Armor in that vehicles do not take Stun Damage, which is WHY it requires the damage to exceed Armor Value. It is not Hardened Armor as in the Power bearing that name.

Well mechanically, with 4th ed it made no difference. The effect is the same. Why make it mechanically different in 5th? Do we really need 3 slightly different damage soak systems? (Regular kill to stun damage, critter hardened armour damage and then vehicle damage) Especially when 2 of them used to produce identical results. I guess we're also supposed to accept that a person can now strap into a suit of hardened armour but a tank (or panzer or APC) does not have hardened armour. Seems odd to me.

No doubt... it is odd, but there you have it.