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Wothanoz
Ok, this is a brainstorming thread for me, but I've been disappointed with the lack of rules support for vehicles, as well as riggers. The biggest problem is that we're limited to stock vehicles, with little ability to modify them. I mean, we can add guns, but we can't add drone racks, or retrofit the van as an ambulance, or increase our handling, modify the vehicle for off road use, or add expanded sensor suites, or have pop up turrets, or a crane. We can't even put an old school pintle mounted weapon on the dang thing.

The basic idea I have is to use Capacity as the basis for most modifications for vehicles. Now, how to figure capcity? I'm either for Body or Body x 2. The rough rule of thumb is that seating is 2 Capacity per seat, Sensors and Pilot each take up their rating in capacity, weapon mounts take up 3 capacity(6 for heavy). What I like about this is that it stays remarkably close to what the stock vehicles in the book can do

A dodge scoot would have 8 capacity on it's chassis, with 1 seating(2), 1 sensor(1), 1 pilot(1), leaving a stock scoot with 4 points of capacity.

A Harley-Davidson Scorpion would have 16 capacity, with 1 seating(2), 2 sensor(2), 1 pilot(1), leaving 11 capacity. Bikes are a bit funny. Not sure if I wanna use the same rules for them.

To avoid overloaded vehicles, I'm thinking of something like -1 handling, speed and accel if you max out your capacity. So while you can get a Jackrabbit with 3 weapons mounted on it, it'd be slow, sluggish and handle like a hog. Some vehicles come out higher, some lower. The roadmaster is already getting close to over-loaded.

That done, we can now stat going for some rather specific mods. I haven't even gotten ready to set up prices, difficulty for performing yourself, or availability. Patience, grasshoppers.

For Handling, I'm thinking of something like:

Improved Handling: +1 handling(applies to off road and on road). Flat limit. This represents replacing stock suspension, brakes, control systems and the like.
Improved Ground Suspension: Improved Ground Suspension can be bought for either Off Road or On Road handling, but not both.
Level 1: +1 to chosen handling
Level 2: +2 to chosen handling, -1 to the secondary handling
Example: I decide, for whatever reasons, that I want big'ole mud tires and a lift kit on my Americar. Let's call that level 2 Improved Off Road Suspension, and it gives me a final handling of 3/5, making my ford worse at driving on the road, but much better in the muddy backwoods while I'm running awakened ginseng.

Speed and Accel

Turbo-Charger or Super Charger: While different in their design and mechanical operation, both Turbo and Super Chargers increase the rate of combustion by forcing more air into engine, increasing fuel burn and power. Provides +1 to Speed and Accel. Many vehicles come with turbo or super charged engines, stock(such as the Eurocar Westwind), and cannot take this modification.

Cost: 2,000 + 10% of vehicle base cost.
Availability: 4

Modification: Requires Automotive Engineering Toolkit.

Larger Engine: By replacing the factory engine with a larger engine, or even boring out cylinders to increase the combustion area, you can gain a great deal of speed and acceleration, at the risk of structural integrity and reliability. Provides +1 to Speed and Accel, Suffer 1 box un resistible damage any time a glitch is rolled, suffer 1 additional box of un resistible damage from collisions.

Cost: 5,000+10% vehicle base cost
Availability: 4

Modification: Requires Automotive engineering Shop.

Nitros Oxide Injection system(rating 1-4): You ever needed that extra kick, and you're not afraid to blow out the seals in your engine? Well, shoot a jet of nitrogen oxide into your combustion chamber, and burn hotter and fiercer than ever before. Activating is a free action, increases Speed and Accel by rating, and provides a +4 dice pool bonus for manuever tests done in a speed environment. Requires capacity equal to rating.

Armor

A vehicle can have additional armor, up to 50% more armor, before the limits of the chassis are reached and no more can be added. However, additional armor reduces engine performance, lowering acceleration and top speed. And truely heavy armor can make a vehicle sluggish and hard to handle.
Up to +25% Armor, -1 Speed, Accel
Up to +50%, -1 Handling, Speed and Accel.



Pilot

At the most basic levels(pilot 1 and 2), the Pilot computers are capable of navigating from point to point, and limited anti-collision capabilities. Off road capabilities are limited at best.

Pilot Capacity
1 1
2 2
3 3
4 5
5 7
6 10

Increased Processing: By expanding the memory and processing centers for a drone, you can allow a drone to run 1 additional autosoft. 1 Capacity.
Hardening(levels 1-3): By installing heavier heatsinks, redundant processing centers and auxilary power sources, you can harden a vehicle, allowing it to function at increase capacity despite damage. Each level allows you to ignore one box of damage when determining the effects of your condition monitor. Capacity cost equal to rating
Enhanced Logic Suite(levels 1-3): Exapanded logic capacity allows the pilot of a vehicle to process and interpret commands. Each level of Enhanced Logic suite provides a dice pool bonus equal to it's rating for comphrension tests to interpret commands, plot navigation points, or solve problems. Capcity cost equal to rating.



Sensors

Vehicle sensor suites in the 6th world are quite powerful, and typically cover multiple different senses. As per pg445, a vehicle sensor array may have up to 8 different functionalities. Increased sensor suites are increasingly larger, according to the following chart.

Sensors Capacity
1 1
2 2
3 3
4 5
5 7
6 10

Expanded Sensor Suite: Rather than upgrading a sensor system, perhaps you just need that FLIR camera and millimeter wave radar, but you have already used up your full allotment of functions? Just add more sensors! You can include an additional sensor functionality for 1 capacity. May be taken multiple times.

Enhanced Search Computer: A specialized computer system that is dedicated solely to identifying and tracking targets, this grants a +2 dice bonus to sensor based perception tests. 1 capacity.
Enhanced Targeting system: A dedicated targeting comput is capable of enhancing the accuracy of vehicle mounted weaponry to a frightening degree. With passive targeting, this provides +2 accuracy, while it provides a +2 dice pool when using Active Targeting. 1 Capacity.


Seating

Bucket Seat: Provides +2 dice pool to resist damage from crashes. Has a cupholder, 2 capacity for 1 seating. "default" seating
Bench seat: A single bench that can allow two people to sit comfortably, though with less safety. 2 Capacity for 2 seating.
Crash Web: Proviveds +6 dice pool to resist damage from crashes. Takes complex action to enter or exit. 3 capacity for 1 seating.

Weapons

Up to SMGs, 1 Capacity
Long Arm, 2 capacity
Heavy weapon, 3 capacity
Ammo: 250rnds per capacity, or Body in missles/rockets per 2 capacity

Weapon Mounts provide Cost 3 capacity, and has a capacity of 3 for mounting weapons and ammunition, while heavy weapons mounts cost 6 capacity, and provide 5 capacity for mounting weapons and ammunition.


Pintle Mount or Firing Port: 1 Capacity, allows up to a Assault Rifle class weapon to be fired by an occupant of the vehicle using Gunnery + Agility[Accuracy or Sensors]. A pintle mount is typically used on open vehicles, while a firing port is used on sealed vehicles. Provides a 90 degree Arc of Fire(horizontally and vertically).
Heavy Pintle Mounted or Firing Port: 2 Capacity, allows heavy weapons to be fired from it, other wise identical to a pintle mount or firing port.

Turrets
Turrets are weapon mounts that allow the moutned weapon to fire in a greater arc than a standard weapon mount. By default, a turret provides a 360 degree arc of fire horizontally, with a 90 degree arc vertically. Turrets can be either low-angle, typical of most ground combat vehicles, or high angle to target aerial targets or use indirect fire.

Turrets cost capacity to install, but each turret has it's own capacity, which can used to mount weapons or sensors, or even seating for Larger or larger turrets. The number in parenthesis is the capacity of each turret
Micro-turret 3( 1)
Mini Turret 5( 2)
Small Turret 7( 3)
Large Turret 9( 5)
Extra Large Turret 11( 7)
Huge Turret 13( 9)

Pop-up turret: Don't want to ruin the sexy lines of your Porche by having a turret installed? Consider a Pop-up turret! When retracted, a pop up turret cannot be detected by casual inspection, and may be deployed for a simple action(Small and smaller) or a complex action for larger turrets. However, the mechanism for this takes up more space, increase the capacity cost of the turret by 50%(round down).

Universal Turret: Need dynamic target engagement solutions? A universal turret has 180 degree vertical arc of engagement. However, this increases the size of the turret's footprint. +50% capacity cost(round down).

Limited traverse: By limiting the horizontal traverse of your turret to 180 degrees, you can reduce the amoutn of space it occupies. Reduce capacity cost by 50%(round up).

Drone Rack: A sophisticated system for deploying drones from a moving vehicle. Comes in regular, and large. Regular size will deploy any body 4 or lower drone, while the large is necessary for drones with body 6 or less. A drone rack can deploy it's carried drone with a single Capacity cost 5(regular), 8(Large).

Miscellaneous

Open bed: A common, if not standard, feature of many vehicles, an open cargo bed can be of a variety of sizes. Capacity cost equal to rating, provides capacityx2 additional capacity, however this additional capacity is not protected by the vehicles armor, nor enclosed.

Well, that's about enough for now. I'm off to work out of twon for a week, so I'll try to check in periodically. But this is the rough frame work I want to work with.
Bull
The Currently Untitled Rigger Book is the next core book up after Chrome Flesh, the Cyber/Bio book that is the next core book out.
Wothanoz
QUOTE (Bull @ Jun 7 2015, 10:41 PM) *
The Currently Untitled Rigger Book is the next core book up after Chrome Flesh, the Cyber/Bio book that is the next core book out.


Yeah, but you know me. I'm impatient. And the guys at the table keep asking if they can have pop up turrets or rip out the seats of their car, or customize their vehicles.
Bull
i know. Originally it was supposed to be the second or third book out, but... I thin demand for the others was too high and it got rearranged frown.gif

And I know that there's a few things I keep insisting on getting in there... including bringing back seating numbers and cargo space. And hopefully we can actually get general size ranges for most of them. I probably won't write any of the Rigger book, but I'll be pestering those that do to include this info.
Wothanoz
Yeah, I went with the capacity idea with the idea that it can also work as a jury-rigged cargo factor. Like, a GMC bulldog stock has those 17 capacity points that can be used for cargo storage, while a GMC bulldog with modifications and only 3 or 4 capacity left over? Well, we know it's gonna have a limited space to stash stuff.

I would like some rules for heavier vehicle weapons, like real auto-cannons and stuff, but I'd also like to see options for doing tune-ups and stuff.

Of course, as a GM/tinker, I would love a vehicle creation system, but I don't think that has to be a requirement. In fact, don't do that. Give us the book of vehicles, rules for modifying vehicles, rules for using them, some more qualities so that we can have advantages to being shade-tree mechanics and bootleggers.

Leave the vehicle creation rules to a splat book. Not everyone will want'em, and it's a lot of space that I would prefer be devoted on other things.
Wothanoz
Yeah, I went with the capacity idea with the idea that it can also work as a jury-rigged cargo factor. Like, a GMC bulldog stock has those 17 capacity points that can be used for cargo storage, while a GMC bulldog with modifications and only 3 or 4 capacity left over? Well, we know it's gonna have a limited space to stash stuff.

I would like some rules for heavier vehicle weapons, like real auto-cannons and stuff, but I'd also like to see options for doing tune-ups and stuff.

Of course, as a GM/tinker, I would love a vehicle creation system, but I don't think that has to be a requirement. In fact, don't do that. Give us the book of vehicles, rules for modifying vehicles, rules for using them, some more qualities so that we can have advantages to being shade-tree mechanics and bootleggers.

Leave the vehicle creation rules to a splat book. Not everyone will want'em, and it's a lot of space that I would prefer be devoted on other things.
Deckbeard
QUOTE (Wothanoz @ Jun 7 2015, 07:03 PM) *
A dodge scoot would have 8 capacity on it's chassis, with 1 seating(2), 1 sensor(1), 1 pilot(1), leaving a stock scoot with 4 points of capacity.

A Harley-Davidson Scorpion would have 16 capacity, with 1 seating(2), 2 sensor(2), 1 pilot(1), leaving 11 capacity. Bikes are a bit funny. Not sure if I wanna use the same rules for them.


Would 1.5 times body work for bikes? That gives 2 points of capacity for a scoot and 6 for a scorpion. The 2 seems a little low, but it works a bit better for the scorpion.
Wothanoz
QUOTE (Deckbeard @ Jun 8 2015, 12:08 AM) *
Would 1.5 times body work for bikes? That gives 2 points of capacity for a scoot and 6 for a scorpion. The 2 seems a little low, but it works a bit better for the scorpion.

That seems kinda cool, I think. As pink mohawk as the idea of a tricked out scooter is, I think I like 1.5 for bikes.

Oh, Moment: Why not allow a full defense option for people riding bikes to use their bikes as cover? I'm thinking things like hanging off one side while someone shoots at you.

Drones are also funny. I'm thinking of just saying that micro drones can't be upgrade, mini drones can only have 1 capacity of upgrades available, and then... well, drones get weird.
Sendaz
QUOTE (Bull @ Jun 7 2015, 10:03 PM) *
And I know that there's a few things I keep insisting on getting in there... including bringing back seating numbers and cargo space. And hopefully we can actually get general size ranges for most of them.

That would be nice, it just helps flesh (chrome?) out the vehicles so much.
Deckbeard
QUOTE (Wothanoz @ Jun 7 2015, 11:10 PM) *
Oh, Moment: Why not allow a full defense option for people riding bikes to use their bikes as cover? I'm thinking things like hanging off one side while someone shoots at you.

That could work. I imagine it's probably -10 to initiative and it takes a piloting test to succeed at doing it with a penalty equal to your body. If you succeed, you add the body of the vehicle in dice to your defense. Otherwise, well, hope your wearing a helmet chummer.

QUOTE (Wothanoz @ Jun 7 2015, 11:10 PM) *
Drones are also funny. I'm thinking of just saying that micro drones can't be upgrade, mini drones can only have 1 capacity of upgrades available, and then... well, drones get weird.

I would say microdrones can receive 1 sensor mod. That's it. Not a sensor suit just one sensor. I agree with you on minidrones. Both of the minidrones in the core have a body of 1 so it fits in with the rest of the mod rules.
Deckbeard
Was just thinking about this and thought of another modification you can add:

Cargo Shocks: Not the kind of thing you typically see but pretty useful when you have to lug around 3 trolls and a Sasquatch. Cargo shocks are a full replacement of your regular shocks that give their ratting in compensation to prevent being overloaded from weight or modifications. This does not grant you additional space to install these modifications, you still have to find the room to put them in. This modification may not be installed on non-wheeled (eg. VTOL and Boats) vehicles or drones. Installing this modification removes your ability to make further modifications to you vehicles suspension. Sorry Slamm-0!!! No, low riding 18 wheelers.

Slamm-0!!!
• You guys are no fun.

Costs: Rating*500 per wheel bay
Availability: Rating*4
Ratings Available: 1-3

Thoughts?
KarmaInferno
QUOTE (Bull @ Jun 7 2015, 11:03 PM) *
and I know that there's a few things I keep insisting on getting in there... including bringing back seating numbers and cargo space. And hopefully we can actually get general size ranges for most of them. I probably won't write any of the Rigger book, but I'll be pestering those that do to include this info.


It won't let me favorite this. Why can I not favorite this? biggrin.gif

Also, actually specifying what form of locomotion a vehicle actually uses, please. We already have a number of drones that give zero indication of what pilot skill they fall under.


-k
Wakshaani
Bull! Remind me to scan in some longhand stuff I've been fiddling with over the past year to take a peek at.

Also, I was pushing for Rigger 5 to be the first book released. I ... really like Riggers.
Wothanoz
Here's an idea I tooled with a bit:

Ares Linebacker II

A variant of the Venerable Ares HumVee, the Linebacker trades seating and cargo capacity for a large turret with universal engagement and an expanded sensor suit, to provide a dedicated, mobile anti-air platform for those on a budget. While flexible and capable of mounting a variety of powerful weaponry, the additional weight has greatly compromised top speed and handling. However, for those who worry about errant thunderbirds or dragons, the Linebacker is an excellent entry level product.


Handling 4/4 Speed 3 Accel 1 Body 15 Armor 12 Pilot 2 Sensor 5 Seats 2 Avail Cost

Extra Large turret with Universal mount, Enhanced targeting System, Enhanced Search Computer, additional ammunition storage(500 rnds or 15 missiles)

Edit: I've also been tinkering with the base post. Adjusted Sensor and Pilot capacity costs.
Voran
I say they should name the book Rigger 7, just to throw us all off.
Sendaz
QUOTE (Voran @ Jun 19 2015, 09:52 AM) *
I say they should name the book Rigger 7, just to throw us all off.

Ironically it may be 7th edition before we see really workable Vehicle and their modification rules so I guess that fits. nyahnyah.gif
Fabe
QUOTE (Bull @ Jun 7 2015, 11:03 PM) *
i

And I know that there's a few things I keep insisting on getting in there... including bringing back seating numbers and cargo space. And hopefully we can actually get general size ranges for most of them. I probably won't write any of the Rigger book, but I'll be pestering those that do to include this info.

OH thank you Bull, cargo space is something I've been wanting for a long time,I hope you are able to get that stuff into what ever rigger books come out I would love to know how many of my drones I can carry in my bulldog and still have room for all 5 team members. Also if you could get them to add the revised weapon mount rules from arsenal that would be great as well .
Ophis
QUOTE (Bull @ Jun 8 2015, 03:41 AM) *
The Currently Untitled Rigger Book is the next core book up after Chrome Flesh, the Cyber/Bio book that is the next core book out.


So Shadowrun 6th next year then? wink.gif biggrin.gif rotfl.gif grinbig.gif
Deckbeard
QUOTE (Ophis @ Jul 27 2015, 09:20 AM) *
So Shadowrun 6th next year then? wink.gif biggrin.gif rotfl.gif grinbig.gif

Supposedly not, but I wouldn't out any money on it. Lol.
Fabe
from the looks of this post on the official forums its going to be a while before we get a riggers book
http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index....87710#msg387710



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