Full Version: Astral Space
Can you hear in Astral Space? Has any rules iteration of Shadowrun ever covered that topic?
Street Magic from 4th covered this on page 114
Characters may converse and be heard by one another in astral space, and language is still a communication barrier there, but an assensing
character will be struck more by the emotive content rather than by the words themselves.
It is also possible to eavesdrop on the noises, communications, and even smells of the physical world from the astral plane,
but just like reading a physical book, the assensing character will perceive the emotional tone and impressions rather than the physical sensation.
So if you meant, can you be projecting in the Astral and hear exactly what is being said on the physical plane, then the answer is no but rather you would perceive emotional content.
So you might see two figures arguing and sense the tension between them, but the actual words being said would elude you.
Characters may converse and be heard by one another in astral space, and language is still a communication barrier there, but an assensing
character will be struck more by the emotive content rather than by the words themselves.
It is also possible to eavesdrop on the noises, communications, and even smells of the physical world from the astral plane,
but just like reading a physical book, the assensing character will perceive the emotional tone and impressions rather than the physical sensation.
So if you meant, can you be projecting in the Astral and hear exactly what is being said on the physical plane, then the answer is no but rather you would perceive emotional content.
So you might see two figures arguing and sense the tension between them, but the actual words being said would elude you.
Was that always the case or was it modified in an edition.
You could also manifest an speak with person in the physical plane so doesn't this contradict that rule?
You could also manifest an speak with person in the physical plane so doesn't this contradict that rule?
QUOTE (sk8bcn @ Jul 29 2015, 02:55 AM) 
Was that always the case or was it modified in an edition.
There was some changes over the years, in 1st through 3rd a voice on the physical was perfectly audible (edit)Now in 4th/5th, you can still see and hear things originating from the physical, however these are blurred and muted as the emotional content/life state is what really comes across.
I suppose this was done to put sound on the same footing as sight as it was sort of a dick move to say if you play astral spy you therefore can not see what was on that paper in front of you but you can hear them read from it just fine.
QUOTE
You could also manifest an speak with person in the physical plane so doesn't this contradict that rule?
Not a contradiction at all, the OP was asking about Astral space so I was referring to what happens while solely on the astral, so if you are sitting solely on the astral inside a private boardroom meeting, you are only going to pick up impressions and not the actual words.
Manifesting is when you are projecting a bit of yourself back into the physical realm and is covered on page 314 in SR5 and 193 in SR4
QUOTE
A purely astral form such as a spirit or an astrally projecting
magician can interact with the physical plane
by manifesting. Manifesting is a psychic effect that lets
you make yourself visible and audible on the physical
plane through an act of will. Manifesting takes a Complex
Action to engage or disengage. You appear on the
physical plane as a ghostly, hazy image of your astral
form and may freely communicate with physical characters.
Unlike the Materialization power of spirits (p. 314),
manifesting doesn’t give you a physical form, so you
can’t interact with anything physically (or be harmed by
physical attacks). It’s a psychic connection, so you can’t
cast spells on targets on the physical plane while you’re
manifesting. For the same reason, technological devices
can’t detect or record you. You’re still on the astral plane,
so astral attacks can still target you. Manifesting is pretty
taxing, so you can only manifest for a total of your Magic
Rating x 5 minutes per astral projection session.
magician can interact with the physical plane
by manifesting. Manifesting is a psychic effect that lets
you make yourself visible and audible on the physical
plane through an act of will. Manifesting takes a Complex
Action to engage or disengage. You appear on the
physical plane as a ghostly, hazy image of your astral
form and may freely communicate with physical characters.
Unlike the Materialization power of spirits (p. 314),
manifesting doesn’t give you a physical form, so you
can’t interact with anything physically (or be harmed by
physical attacks). It’s a psychic connection, so you can’t
cast spells on targets on the physical plane while you’re
manifesting. For the same reason, technological devices
can’t detect or record you. You’re still on the astral plane,
so astral attacks can still target you. Manifesting is pretty
taxing, so you can only manifest for a total of your Magic
Rating x 5 minutes per astral projection session.
So if you manifest within that boardroom you could speak with the board members and be spoken to, however again it is psychic on your part so no actual sound comes from you as noted about no recording possible.
So you could manifest to talk to someone, but you could not give verbal commands to a machine.
Of course said board members will probably promptly punch their panic buttons and then astral security pops in for a little game of 'Let's Hide the Astral Nightstick' with you.
QUOTE (Sendaz @ Jul 29 2015, 09:45 AM)
Street Magic from 4th covered this on page 114
Characters may converse and be heard by one another in astral space, and language is still a communication barrier there, but an assensing
character will be struck more by the emotive content rather than by the words themselves.
It is also possible to eavesdrop on the noises, communications, and even smells of the physical world from the astral plane,
but just like reading a physical book, the assensing character will perceive the emotional tone and impressions rather than the physical sensation.
So if you meant, can you be projecting in the Astral and hear exactly what is being said on the physical plane, then the answer is no but rather you would perceive emotional content.
So you might see two figures arguing and sense the tension between them, but the actual words being said would elude you.
Characters may converse and be heard by one another in astral space, and language is still a communication barrier there, but an assensing
character will be struck more by the emotive content rather than by the words themselves.
It is also possible to eavesdrop on the noises, communications, and even smells of the physical world from the astral plane,
but just like reading a physical book, the assensing character will perceive the emotional tone and impressions rather than the physical sensation.
So if you meant, can you be projecting in the Astral and hear exactly what is being said on the physical plane, then the answer is no but rather you would perceive emotional content.
So you might see two figures arguing and sense the tension between them, but the actual words being said would elude you.
Funny. I wrote a house rule just like that. Good to know that its actually canon.
QUOTE (Sendaz @ Jul 29 2015, 10:34 AM)
There was some changes over the years, in 1st through 3rd a voice on the physical was perfectly audible (edit)from on the astral, and there was good work back then being an astral snoop.
Now in 4th/5th, you can still see and hear things originating from the physical, however these are blurred and muted as the emotional content/life state is what really comes across.
I suppose this was done to put sound on the same footing as sight as it was sort of a dick move to say if you play astral spy you therefore can not see what was on that paper in front of you but you can hear them read from it just fine.
Not a contradiction at all, the OP was asking about Astral space so I was referring to what happens while solely on the astral, so if you are sitting solely on the astral inside a private boardroom meeting, you are only going to pick up impressions and not the actual words.
Manifesting is when you are projecting a bit of yourself back into the physical realm and is covered on page 314 in SR5 and 193 in SR4
So if you manifest within that boardroom you could speak with the board members and be spoken to, however again it is psychic on your part so no actual sound comes from you as noted about no recording possible.
So you could manifest to talk to someone, but you could not give verbal commands to a machine.
Of course said board members will probably promptly punch their panic buttons and then astral security pops in for a little game of 'Let's Hide the Astral Nightstick' with you.
Now in 4th/5th, you can still see and hear things originating from the physical, however these are blurred and muted as the emotional content/life state is what really comes across.
I suppose this was done to put sound on the same footing as sight as it was sort of a dick move to say if you play astral spy you therefore can not see what was on that paper in front of you but you can hear them read from it just fine.
Not a contradiction at all, the OP was asking about Astral space so I was referring to what happens while solely on the astral, so if you are sitting solely on the astral inside a private boardroom meeting, you are only going to pick up impressions and not the actual words.
Manifesting is when you are projecting a bit of yourself back into the physical realm and is covered on page 314 in SR5 and 193 in SR4
So if you manifest within that boardroom you could speak with the board members and be spoken to, however again it is psychic on your part so no actual sound comes from you as noted about no recording possible.
So you could manifest to talk to someone, but you could not give verbal commands to a machine.
Of course said board members will probably promptly punch their panic buttons and then astral security pops in for a little game of 'Let's Hide the Astral Nightstick' with you.
Ok but hence I could manifest, put my astral body into a wall (roughly) and let an ear get into the room to hear what happens?
And if you'd say it's only a psychic connection would I be seen by anybody?
Yes it would be possible to see you. Remember, manifesting makes you visible and audible. Now sticking yourself in a wall is only going to work if your astral form is about 5 inches thick or less. Interior walls aren't that thick (about 5 - 6 inches) and exterior walls aren't much thicker (6- 8 inches), at least in most buildings. So those sort of tricks aren't really going to work unless you are in a bunker or something else with really thick walls.
Like Mantis said, your form is visible, but the trick with sticking through a wall could work up to a point, assuming nobody notices the rest of you hanging out of the other side of that wall.
Plus that is also assuming there is not astral security in place, whether its warded rooms or just roaming spirits looking for astral snoops.
Plus that is also assuming there is not astral security in place, whether its warded rooms or just roaming spirits looking for astral snoops.
Actually, the thing is, in 1st to 3rd, it made sense to me since you just made yourself appear. The perception of the astral space had no difference. This rule change makes somehow a difference when you appear and when you don't.
I do get that this difference is supposed to be generated by the mental connection but if that's the case, couldn't the mage limit his manifestation to a few. And why would nobody be aware of the link.
On a side note, I think I will rule out (when I ll move from 3rd to 4th) that the mental connection makes people notice somebody is present something like "you feel that someone's around".
I do get that this difference is supposed to be generated by the mental connection but if that's the case, couldn't the mage limit his manifestation to a few. And why would nobody be aware of the link.
On a side note, I think I will rule out (when I ll move from 3rd to 4th) that the mental connection makes people notice somebody is present something like "you feel that someone's around".
QUOTE (sk8bcn @ Jul 29 2015, 11:19 AM)
Ok but hence I could manifest, put my astral body into a wall (roughly) and let an ear get into the room to hear what happens?
And if you'd say it's only a psychic connection would I be seen by anybody?
And if you'd say it's only a psychic connection would I be seen by anybody?
I dunno, what's your Infiltration and what's their Perception?
Personally I consider that since manifesting is psychic, it's actually happening in the people's mind. They've got the impression that you're there, and might hallucinate some visual appearance and sound feedback, but it's happening in their head. Communication is possible, but people will always be aware that you're manifesting, so eavesdropping is not possible.
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