I have a couple of rules questions. If a hacker detects wireless nodes:
a) Does it pinpoint their physical location? I think the answer is yes.
b) Does it identify what kind of nodes they are (comlink, home node, drone, etc...)? or would it just give each one's ID, so it could be somebody's name for a comlink, or a reference number for a drone/home node? I think it would give an ID code, which might identify it (e.g. if the code is SteelLynx#1) or might not depending on the ID codes used.
b) Once a hacker has detected the wireless nodes in an area (if it does pinpoint their physical location) would they be able to track their positions in real time? i.e. Tracking comlinks to know where guards out of LOS are? If so, would that require actions to maintain or would it be automatic since you've detected them? I think it would be possible, but I think it would require something like an 'Observe in Detail' or a 'Detect Wireless Nodes' action each turn.
c) If a detected node switches to hidden mode would it then be undetected until it's detected again with the +15 threshold? I think it would be.
Just started GMing again and I had this situation last session. I allowed it this time to avoid bogging down the session but I'd like some other opinions before it comes up again.
Thanks for any answers.
Full Version: Detect Wireless Nodes
Does it pinpoint their physical location? : I'd say no, that you need a Track program to actually do that.
Does it identify what kind of nodes they are? : I'd say no; that's what the Analyze program would be for.
... be able to track their positions in real time? : Why not? It can be done with cell phones now. This is actually covered by the Trace User action in SR4a, page 232, and requires the Track program to be running, though I'd say you can do better than a 50m radius (a volume of almost 525,000 cubic meters, or about half a cubic kilometer) margin of error if you can use more than one commlink (or similar device) to triangulate the target's location (like a tacnet, though without any bonus dice).
... switch to hidden mode would it then be undetected ...? : I'd say that once detected the node's existence is known until something else changes, like the unique Access ID (either by changing it or using Spoof to fake another one) or the fact that there is no signal at all (like disabling wireless before re-enabling it into hidden mode). Once lost then it has to be scanned for again, and I'd say even if it were using the same Access ID.
Does it identify what kind of nodes they are? : I'd say no; that's what the Analyze program would be for.
... be able to track their positions in real time? : Why not? It can be done with cell phones now. This is actually covered by the Trace User action in SR4a, page 232, and requires the Track program to be running, though I'd say you can do better than a 50m radius (a volume of almost 525,000 cubic meters, or about half a cubic kilometer) margin of error if you can use more than one commlink (or similar device) to triangulate the target's location (like a tacnet, though without any bonus dice).
... switch to hidden mode would it then be undetected ...? : I'd say that once detected the node's existence is known until something else changes, like the unique Access ID (either by changing it or using Spoof to fake another one) or the fact that there is no signal at all (like disabling wireless before re-enabling it into hidden mode). Once lost then it has to be scanned for again, and I'd say even if it were using the same Access ID.
a) Ok, that is what the Track program does, and it does say that the Track action can only trace a mobile wireless device to within 50m (SR4 p219), but I think that is a slightly different situation, tracking over the matrix rather than within the signal range of your comlink. If that were the case, in a high security area, how would Knight Errant know who isn't running a comlink in visible mode if their comlinks can't link detected nodes to physical locations?
b) Good, I agree.
c) So you would say you can track them, but only within the 50m (unless you've got more than 1 device working on it somehow). So it wouldn't be able to follow people moving along corridors and within a building less than 50m large exactly.?
d) Ok.
b) Good, I agree.
c) So you would say you can track them, but only within the 50m (unless you've got more than 1 device working on it somehow). So it wouldn't be able to follow people moving along corridors and within a building less than 50m large exactly.?
d) Ok.
Within a building like that (or most high security areas) there's a whole lot more than just wireless tracking. Many cameras, other sensors, and of course drones, are also wireless on top of their primary functions.
QUOTE (Moomin @ Sep 7 2015, 09:23 AM) 
a) Ok, that is what the Track program does, and it does say that the Track action can only trace a mobile wireless device to within 50m (SR4 p219), but I think that is a slightly different situation, tracking over the matrix rather than within the signal range of your comlink. If that were the case, in a high security area, how would Knight Errant know who isn't running a comlink in visible mode if their comlinks can't link detected nodes to physical locations?
They use a Telematics Infrastructure. SR4A Edition, Unwired, Page 62.
I fully agree with SpellBinder's assessment.
Additionally, I'd say that, especially inside a building, wireless signals would be significantly easier to track. The sheer amount of triangulation available from all the sensors and secondary/tertiary systems present in buildings to do exactly that? Yeah. Doing so may need a Security or Admin account in the building's systems, however...
Additionally, I'd say that, especially inside a building, wireless signals would be significantly easier to track. The sheer amount of triangulation available from all the sensors and secondary/tertiary systems present in buildings to do exactly that? Yeah. Doing so may need a Security or Admin account in the building's systems, however...
I have a follow on question.
e) A hacker is in a bar with somebody whose comlink they want to hack. They run a Detect Wireless Nodes action to detect it so they can start the hack. Do they just get a list of active nodes in the area like when you scan for Bluetooth devices? So some of them might be comlinks and identify their owner by name, others might have a default ID like 'Erika Icon 435' so you can't tell whose it is, the bar's node would prob identify itself as 'Dantes' or whatever.
If it doesn't pin down a physical location how can you hack somebody's comlink in a crowded area? If that's how it works you'd have to spend forever hacking every one of the comlinks to find the one you wanted.
e) A hacker is in a bar with somebody whose comlink they want to hack. They run a Detect Wireless Nodes action to detect it so they can start the hack. Do they just get a list of active nodes in the area like when you scan for Bluetooth devices? So some of them might be comlinks and identify their owner by name, others might have a default ID like 'Erika Icon 435' so you can't tell whose it is, the bar's node would prob identify itself as 'Dantes' or whatever.
If it doesn't pin down a physical location how can you hack somebody's comlink in a crowded area? If that's how it works you'd have to spend forever hacking every one of the comlinks to find the one you wanted.
I would have likened it more to finding wireless routers on your "smart" phone or tablet and getting a list of network devices that way, but probably close enough with the bluetooth analogy. And you don't have to hack all the nodes individually; Analyze can give you those basic details before hacking any of them (how else are you going to know there's a data bomb on a node first?), but it will slow you down considerably as you might have to scan several before you find the desired target.
I'd let things be easier myself, more to just let things be fun than bog down in crunch and dice rolling, and if you really want a more technical explanation on how it'd work just say that your [insert eyeware] is helping triangulate things with your commlink and is visually represented in the image link so you can actually see where what is as such a close range (or at least in what direction in relation to you. Of course if there's a large mess of such devices this can prove problematic; it also works both ways, so I wouldn't expect players to get away with it without the opposition being able to do the same.
I'd let things be easier myself, more to just let things be fun than bog down in crunch and dice rolling, and if you really want a more technical explanation on how it'd work just say that your [insert eyeware] is helping triangulate things with your commlink and is visually represented in the image link so you can actually see where what is as such a close range (or at least in what direction in relation to you. Of course if there's a large mess of such devices this can prove problematic; it also works both ways, so I wouldn't expect players to get away with it without the opposition being able to do the same.
QUOTE (SpellBinder @ Sep 8 2015, 06:36 PM)
I would have likened it more to finding wireless routers on your "smart" phone or tablet and getting a list of network devices that way, but probably close enough with the bluetooth analogy. And you don't have to hack all the nodes individually; Analyze can give you those basic details before hacking any of them (how else are you going to know there's a data bomb on a node first?), but it will slow you down considerably as you might have to scan several before you find the desired target.
I'd let things be easier myself, more to just let things be fun than bog down in crunch and dice rolling, and if you really want a more technical explanation on how it'd work just say that your [insert eyeware] is helping triangulate things with your commlink and is visually represented in the image link so you can actually see where what is as such a close range (or at least in what direction in relation to you. Of course if there's a large mess of such devices this can prove problematic; it also works both ways, so I wouldn't expect players to get away with it without the opposition being able to do the same.
I'd let things be easier myself, more to just let things be fun than bog down in crunch and dice rolling, and if you really want a more technical explanation on how it'd work just say that your [insert eyeware] is helping triangulate things with your commlink and is visually represented in the image link so you can actually see where what is as such a close range (or at least in what direction in relation to you. Of course if there's a large mess of such devices this can prove problematic; it also works both ways, so I wouldn't expect players to get away with it without the opposition being able to do the same.
Excellent point! AR overlay would probably automatically show everyone's commlink data over their heads with signal strength and maybe some other info like estimated firewall strength and possibly even the presence of encryption. Unless you're operating in the bar at 3 IP and in tactical combat turns, that information would be available to a commlink that's running a Scan program with Analyze in 30 seconds (30 Initiative Passes for the 'link) or less for most people in the room.
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