Hello, all. Been literally years since I've been on dumpshock. Mostly because my group was uninterested in SR and I had soured on PbP games. I'm aware that there is a "new" 5th edition. (I was there when it truly was new at GenCon 2014; however, I didn't pick it up for aforementioned reasons.)

I am aware that it had ... shall we say some opportunities for further editing. Was there ever a new printing that fixed those issues?

iirc that depends greatly on how fixed you want it to be.

edit: for clarity, i've seen reports (or really, *a* report) of a "third printing, corrected" dead tree version of the core book, which reportedly includes the errata they had issued.

there are, however, those in the community who were not particularly impressed with the errata that was released. if you suspect you might be one of those people, then functionally there is no version (printed or PDF) that incorporates sufficient errata.

my personal advice is that even if you are prepared to be content with the official errata, that you supplement it with the missions FAQ. why, you ask? because missions actually has to produce usable answers to questions that the core book does a terrible job of answering, and they have to state it in such a way that it will be consistently applied across hundreds of games, and they need to have that in place before they can allow the book to be used in their games (which means that not only are they much more comprehensive in clarifying how rules are to be applied, but they also actually seem to give a carp when something is obviously brokenly overpowered, and they also get it all in place a heck of a lot faster than the main company does. which is funny, because i'm pretty sure "they" is actually one or two people, tops. one of whom is currently having some medical problems, last i heard, and is unable to work as a result. while the main company has multiple freelancers (who seem to be consistently ignored) providing feedback before the books are published and a large number of fans pointing out all the errors and even compiling them into detailed errata threads... apparently it's quite difficult for the editor to actually, you know... edit stuff... but the guy who's supposed to be spending all his time coordinating events and such, and is not a professional editor, can get it done in less time, with less budget, while doing a whole other job).

so yeah, there's a version with errata (or so i'm told, i haven't seen a physical copy of it).

but you may want to get out the post-it notes anyways.

That is disheartening. I was looking at my books (2nd, 3rd and 4th [pre-anniversary]) yesterday and asking myself if I could justify the cost of 5th. Maybe the question I should be asking is, "What does 5th give me that 4th doesn't?"

I've read multiple reviews of 5th and they seem to fall into two categories: 1) It's awesome! 2) It's crap! This is not terribly helpful. Putting all questions about errata to the side, what does it offer a guy who enjoyed 2nd and 3rd editions and was neutral on 4th?

it's much more like 4th than it is like 2nd or 3rd, imo. if you thought 4th edition was pretty "meh" and are mostly looking with an eye towards reading and maybe someday playing if you have a group that wants to play 5th edition specifically, I'd hold off until you meet that hypothetical group.

I'll second what Jaid said. I've played every edition from 1st onward and for me at least, 5th is the least enjoyable. It has some pretty cool ideas in there but they suffer from terrible execution. For example, removing most of the extended tests from the matrix ( a big problem with 4th ed matrix) is an excellent idea. However the implementation is less than ideal. I was particularly pissed when one of the things I wanted to do was not detailed and instead there was a note saying details were in a forthcoming book. If it is something that is supposed to be pretty basic it should be in the damn core book (rant off).
If you enjoyed the cookie cutter characters you got with the priority system in 1st through 3rd, maybe you'll like 5th. Me, I hated it. It disguises itself as giving choice but any choice outside a very narrow boundary is sub optimal and in a game that seems to stress optimization this is not good.
There is plenty more but I don't want to turn this into an 'I hate 5th' thread so I'll leave it there. If you don't have a pressing reason to play 5th I wouldn't bother, though I will add DrivethruRPG is offering a really nice sale on them right now. Half price I think for the PDFs.

I would argue that Shadowrun has always suffered from a narrow set of boundaries. In all versions I've played, a new player will need a helping hand the first few times he makes a character to avoid sub-optimal choices. I know I did.

That aside, sounds like I'll pass for now on 5th. Thanks, all.

I would argue that optimal character might be the best to rollplay, but sub-optimal characters are the most fun to roleplay.

That depends on how and why they are sub-optimal. Do they have a particular hardship or handicap to overcome, or did they avoid all magic and cyber for some reason in their backstory? That can be interesting. Did they not realize knowledge skills/contacts/perception skill was useful or end up hamstrung because they wanted to do something that sounded cool but doesn't work in actual play?

Although a lot of that comes down to the amount of possibilities in SR, and can be helped by the GM and experienced players giving advice to new players.


Back on topic, 5th seems to try to use 4th edition rules and (lack of?) style to remake 3rd edition. The matrix is more in line with picking a lock than a full-blown separate run, but has some extra bookkeeping with overwatch score and which server you are on. Also, literally everything is on the matrix in some way now, including all of every runner's gear (except maybe magic-related stuff?). Also, it sounds like most things they tried to fix from 4th had 2 or more fixes which either cancel out or overshoot the mark. I'd agree with mostly good ideas but poor implementation.

To be fair, the other 2 game systems I've tried recently were also bad. One was bland enough that most characters could do the same things, and another has hilariously poor balance (one example: random ganger is better than a somewhat experienced character, all other NPCs are even better, and combat is pretty well expected). I think we've just gotten to the point that bad rules and bad game systems just bother us more.

Not a fan of everything being on the matrix. It's just nuts. In real life I no longer buy software that requires an internet connection. I just don't do it. Not even Steam. In a world where my arm can be hacked, am I going to let it stay connected to the grid? Hell, no. So, there's a strike against 5th.

Yeah, I don't get to play anything as much as I used to. I find that I'm far more picky than I used to be. The adage "No gaming is better than bad gaming." is true for me. (Though, my nearly 14 year old is showing promise, so I have hope.)

Thanks, folks. I always enjoy info from the good folks from DS.

http://www.wired.com/2012/05/everyone-hacked/

Dont fear the cloud, adapt to it. Its all about monitoring, active awareness. In the 90s when your bank account was hacked there was jack crap you could do about it and you only had 30 days till your liable. Today you can set up so much monitoring that you know when your cell phone moves to an unexpected tower or your credit card number got used to buy a candy bar down the block. I personally have it locked down by state and receive alerts in multiple formats. It can be a pain when your travelling as you have to unlock everything but its a small price to pay to know when someone jacked something and instantly shut it down.

[edit] Like Chris Christy when GSA got hacked all my info from what agencies I worked for, clearances I held etc from my time working for the Fed got hacked. So you have to be proactive, your bank and other institutions already put your info out there and already have been hacked. If you have a drivers license they already have your address. Its a new world with a new way defending yourself by proactively monitoring your information and accounts. Heck even lifelock has been hacked and thats the whole reason people pay them money is not to be hacked.

Even Lifelock? I don't remember anyone being particularly surprised when the owner's identity got repeatedly stolen after he proved how good (ie not at all) the company is by showing his social security card on an advertisement. I thought they were a fairly easy to identify scam.

It wouldn't be so annoying if it wasn't for the fact everytime I cross the Pond, even though I notify my banks where I am going and for how long, they almost ALWAYS lock my bloody cards the first day I use them at my destination.
Which requires me to then ring them from abroad to get it sorted out and yes, they are always very sorry but for spirits sake they knew when and where I was, so it's not exactly a mystery who was using it.

Do you own a somewhat recent-model (post-2009) car? If so, congratulations, your device is open to be hacked. Yes, it really is that bad. And it's not just cars. It's not that you can choose - you won't have much of a choice soon enough. I don't think that's all that unrealistic.

Besides, that's been around at least since Mercurial, where hacking Maria's stereo is discussed in the GM hints. Not to mention the world of the Secrets of Power trilogy and all those byzantine 1st edition Matrix systems where every bloody Kaf Maker was it's own slave node (thanks for bringing that back, SR4).

True, it was more in references that their entire business model revolves around not getting hacked than that of a statement about how competent they are.

As to the cars let's be fair if you don't have a gps, Bluetooth or other wireless service your as safe as you were in the late 90s... How long that will be true I have no idea, my newest is only a 2013 and the diagnostic is not wireless yet. Which basically means physical access but you can screw up and engine pretty good messing with the computer settings no wireless needed. Until Google starts writing your car firmware I wouldn't trust it to be that great and don't even get me started on Medtronics and your pacemaker.