So I've had an idea in my head rattling around a bit. Here is the unpainted version.

Problem: Mages and magic and really only be countered by other mages. This presents a variety of challenges both in universe and out.

Solution: Someone comes on the scene who can essentially train mundanes into aspected mages who can only perform counterspelling and banishing on the low end graduating eventually into warding and assensing for truely advanced students.

Canon Support: Well There is stuff like atttacks of Will and Kial (p.157 aresenal) and I vaguely remember reading somewhere that becoming an aspected mage in many case is a product of training and practice rather then actual gifts.

Plot Hooks: So many. Where did this technique come from. What's involved in leaning it. Is the group that has it secretly alligned with the Humanis/Dragons/Bugs/Deus. To what lengths will they go to protect their market niche, to what lengths will others go to try and horn in on the action.

Thoughts?

On the combat side, it actually is not so unbalanced.

Direct combat spells don't get a base damage, rather you only get hits as damage.

Indirect combat spells do more damage, but also take into account things like armor/dodge. So these are more like magical equivalent of regular weapons.

In both cases drain is also a limiter as you don't get drain from unloading a clip while casting back to back will tire you out, so the mechanics are working as intended.

But things like Mind Control, Astral stuff and similar, yeah I can see why it does seem OP as there is limited defense against these and in the case of MC chances of breaking free once grabbed are abysmal.

It is an interesting thought, maybe as the mana increases it also becomes more malleable so that simply performing certain rituals could produce effects like a ward or similar because the ritual is a known formula the mana will respond to, but this is a slippery slope because if they can learn to channel mana into a ward, why can't they use it to cast a spell as well.

If you are going down this route, make it ritual format. No insta-defense/effect, but rather the defender has to chant/draw diagrams on the floor/other actions in a manner similar to the rituals as described in core to achieve the effects. Maybe not quite as long a time requirement, but certainly longer than a single CT.

I liken it to the old Conan spin off worlds from D&D, where magic casting was done in rounds instead of segments (basically taking 10 times as long to cast a spell effect) because in that campaign there was no insta-cast but rather all of it was ritual magic, even the combat spells.
So yeah it took the equivalent of 3 CT to cast a fireball. Again, we are not advocating making combat spells accessible to this, but just showing as an example of the casting time increase.

So a banishing would have the defender gather elements related to the spirit or have some old tome of spirits names and other incantations and setting out objects of power to subdue the spirit with, all the while chanting not unlike a scene out of the exorcist to dismiss the entity.
The rest of the team have to help keep the spirit off the banisher while he builds the mojo required, unless the guy planned in advance and set a protection ward up first.

Just a thought.

First off I'm running fourth and have opted not to change the magic damage yet and while damage magic did git a bit of a whack in fifth it's still OP as crap. I'm not going to have that argument frankly.

Sure people can chant if they want, the teachings will be a hodge podge of western and eastern meditative and chi channeling affects. But at the end of the day it should work exactly as standard spell defense and banishing does. Less Systems to manage.

But part of the problem is you want them to get all the benefits of spell defense/banishing without paying the price by way of the Magic Score.
Which is why I suggested a price in the form of making it more ritualistic as a way to offset the 'cost'.

Since you have specified you are going with 4th, remember that banishing is normally having the banisher rolling Banishing +Magic.
Now if you are treating Magic as 0, this is not so bad against an unbound spirit since they only get to roll Force.
However if they tangle with a bound spirit, they will be rolling against Force +Summoner's magic which will make it a lot more difficult to beat.

Or are you going to allow them to bind a banishing focus to help level the field a bit?
Like a Seal of Solomon or similar unique foci type forged/passed down within the Citadel.
While most foci can not be bound by mundanes, 4th did have rules for unique foci and some could be bonded by mundane so that is a possibility.

You run into a similar problem when trying to use Counterspelling against a sustained spell. The dispelling magician makes a Counterspelling + Magic
Opposed Test against the spell’s Force + caster’s Magic (+ Karma spent in the case of quickened spells).
Again the dispeller is effectively only rolling one stack o' dice vs the spell's two stacks of dice unless you work in an unique foci in here as well to pick up the slack.

Or otherwise, make the ritual generate an effective Magic rating.
If they want the effect RIGHT NOW, it's with an effective Magic 0 for dice rolls, but with a little prep time and chanting, they can better their odds by building Power.

OR go with the creepy factor by scrapping the above and let them do the spell defense / banishing as normal, but have it turn out they are really doing it via the benefits of a spirit pact with an entity who is doing the actual magical heavy lifting(by providing the Magic score) in trade for an unwitting Karma Tap or other demands.
Also there may be limits to how many active spell defences/banishings it can be backing at the same time without a couple falling apart at inopportune times.
Suggest you look at the Aleph Society in Threats 2 for more on this sort of Shared Potency.

In any case, good luck with it and let us know how it progresses as it could make a fun NPC agency.

Oh they would absolutely have a magic rating. For all intents and purposes they are aspected mages. The only difference really is they learned to do what they do in a temple or classroom vs it being a cultivated innate gift.

I would treat this as magic resistance/banishing, but allow 6 levels. Keep the Karma cost the same for getting Magic resistance post character creation. Simple and straightforward, only one new rule and that is the person learning can lower his defenses if he wants magic healing.

I think he wants the full counterspelling so they can cover others.

Having even a single Citadel Trained guy on the opposition team would go a fair ways in providing support for that team, especially since SR4 counterspelling is so much friendlier than in 5th.

Our solution to this for 4thed was to just allow a second attribute in the spell resistance test. Either Will or Intuition, which ever wasn't already factored in. This has pretty much balanced out the OP aspect of things like MC spells. We apply the same thing to spirit powers of a similar aspect (Influence or Compulsion for example).

Yea but the idea here is the megacorp sends someone to be trained now they don't just provide resistance for themselves but can provide spell defense for their security detail when a mage isn't available. Because mages are theoretically rare despite how often they seem to pop up in runner teams.

Awakened Metahumans are more common in Shadowrun than Doctors in the real World are. How many Doctors do you know IRL?

Discounting that I work in a hospital ... My one friend is a doctor.

Wait a minute. You're going to make a rule that anyone can just train to be a mage? That will radically change the entire SR world. Why isn't everyone a mage? That's handing out the Aspected Magician quality for free to the entire planet.

No more so then everyone on the planet is a doctor or advanced degree martial artist it takes discipline, time , and training.

Do Witch Doctors count?

Discounting that, of course.

Of course they do... them are the best kind.

Something I've done for one of my mundane PC who was scared of illusions/mind manipulation spells was having some glowmoss on his vest, with sensors to pick up when they glow and get his commlink to tell him that he might be the target of mind manipulation and that he should question his actions. Rulewise, that could grant him an additional spell resistance test.