I love shadowrun. I love its idiosyncratic world. I love its unique and original take on both technology and magic and how they would clash.

My first encounter with shadowrun was a feverish desire to start a pen and paper roleplaying group among my friends by any means necessary. I found a random recommendation for Shadowrun on Amazon, so when I saw the book was only like $20 used, I picked it up just for kicks. Little did I know.

My previous experience with role playing was AD&D 3rd edition. Compared to AD&D, Shadowrun is an intricate, complicated, real life simulation.

This post is my response to the frequent arguments about the flaws in the Shadowrun rules system. I can appreciate that Shadowrun does not replicate with absolute equality the the things that happen in real life. This doesn't mean that the game designers were ignorant of chemistry, physics, mechanics or firearms operations. Unless this forum is frequented by large number of multiple Phd nobel prize winning theoretical scientists, they're probably not any more ignorant of these topics then the average forum dweller here on fabulous Dumpshock.

There is something, on the other hand, that we as forum dwellers are (by and large, I know I'm going to get shot down for this one) ignorant of. The creation, development and distribution of a pen and paper role playing game. Not to mention to playtesting, and balancing that goes into these processes. I believe that these rules, however ubsurd they may seem, were implemented for a reason. This reason was almost certainly to keep the game playable. Either by making a rule easy to remember, easy to implement on the fly, easy to modify, or open to interpretation. The ultimate goal, in my opinion, was to make Shadowrun fun.

Granted that players are not always going to have the same interpretation of fun as your average game designer. This is why house rules are all fine and dandy.

Also, if you're ever given a big question mark as to why a rule is the way it is, remember that anything can rationalized. The real reason you can dikote a katana without ruining its temper is because, in reality, dikote is sprinkled on by fairy named "Hot Plasma" who likes to eat fabrics and plastics. The reason people in shadowrun pass out after only a few seconds of carrying heavy loads is because gravity is actually a free spirit who is attracted by the sudden collation of large masses of objects.

Anyway, I'm done ranting. I hope this sort of post isn't a common occurence. I just wanted to post my two cents.

I'd love to hear some more reasons why people love shadowrun enough to get cranky and whine about it on the internet.

Right on my brother--but you forgot, we only whine when our Dikoted ally spirit refuses to put out, preferring to stay in its slivergun form.

The reason a lot of the weird rules stayed in place even after FASA got knowlegable people was for continuity. The cost of a cell phone, the concealability of a gun compared to a memory chip, etc. were all maintained from one edition to another, even as real world equivilents changed or experts reinformed them. One of the big reasons for this is because much of the fiction, which still remains canon, mentions things working a certain way.

Which brings me to my more on-topic post...I love Shadowrun because of the world. The metaplot, the novels, the fiction, the Shadowtalk, etc. It makes the game world that much more vibrant and alive.

The Abstruse One

Amen to that. I never get into rules squibbles very bad because my group tends to just go with whatever the GM says to keep flow from stopping, so I'm not really in it for the rules. But the world is great. Not only is it really detailed with a compelling atmosphere, but it's also flexible enough that more than a decade after being introduced to the game, we're still coming up with fresh ideas for our plots. I've tried a lot of other RPGs and I've grown tired of all of them.

Not to mention the fact that without Shadowrun, I never would have thought to tell my enemies to "such cheese" and then call them "shark face." Though I'm not sure if the spelling of "shark face" as two words rather than one is canon or not...

Amen.

For all the bitching people do over the rules, it's a given that they like the game- otherwise they'd be playing something else. Then again, I'm sure some people just like to argue.

I remember when one of my friends introduced me to Shadowrun. My views on RPG settings were relatively conservative then- "Wait a second. So it's the future, and there's Tolkien elves, and they cast spells at robots, er, drones or whatever? That's the stupidest thing ever!"

I didn't like crossovers, but the more he told me, the more interesting it got.

It was initially the cyberpunk clichés that drew me in, and it's still something I enjoy, but over time I appreciated the other aspects of the setting. I saw the interaction (tension?) between the magic and the tech as important (cyberzombies are still one of my favorite SR things). I liked the descriptions of magic and the planes, and once I got over - "there was a dragon elected president?" - I liked SR's take on dragons a lot.

I liked that there was an overall plot to the setting and that it progressed over time (he played first and second ed. and explained some FASA mysteries). I liked some of the characters as well. Shadowrun is my favorite fantasy (it is *not* sci-fi or cyberpunk, IMO) setting.

I also think it's good that the game concepts are scalable- you can play in an early Gibsonian dystopia or an action anime, depending on what's emphasized.

There were always things I never quite grasped- the breaking up of nation states (U.S. and Canada specifically) could have been handled differently, but that was something involving magic, so it's easy to let go. There isn't a good reason the Matrix uses sculpted systems, but it gives it style and atmosphere, so it's easy to let go. I don't think certain rules (firearms) and concepts (cyberware) are handled well or are handled in ways I don't understand (Dikote, riggers), but that doesn't mean I don't like Shadowrun and don't think it's awesome. For those situations, there are house rules.

It just gives me something to whine about on the Internet.

shadowrun is my abusive sugar daddy. it beats me, it makes me cry, it plays hellish games with my mind--yet i keep coming back for more. if i were a woman, i'd probably be in a shelter.

I personally like it because there's little other sane way you can go akimbo with twin 10mm BF pistols while furniture gets shredded by other gunfire and then make your getaway on a nice set of minigun-sporting wheels.

I just nitpick rules as a secondary pastime.

Definitely the world. My GM can (or I can, as a GM) make a reference to something (get a package to UCLA from Chicago, for instance) and I or my players can then go off and research all the ins and outs according to canon without having to consult him. Obviously the GM mentions if anything differs from canon, and the players ask anything that isn't known to them (whether because the books don't say or because they don't have the books), but the simple ability to investigate the game world without the GM is… beautiful.

~J

I actually love the Earthdawn-SR crossovers. Might not be your cup of tea, but it makes SR much more unique and makes the world seem mystical and more alive. And I think it's pretty cool they linked two game franchises.

The world, most definately. It's so versatile and diverse, you can do pretty much anything with it. Any aspect can be added or left out in any way you please and it's still a decent gaming world. Sometimes I have campaigns completely without magic sometimes without a single fight. It can all be done. Superficial Anime Action Flix or Social Dramas, it's all right there. If you want Humphrey Bogard style detective thrillers or Arnold Schwarzenegger "Eraser" type stories, you can get it.
The game world gives just enough details for a lazy GM to have a solid framework and they leave enough gaps for the creative GM to come up with something completely new and crazy!
I'm always amazed what can be done with this world. I have so many ideas in my head and so little opportunity to play!

The rules aren't actually too bad. You can dumb them down quite easily. However, once you start playing with all the extensions and extra rules it get's absurdely complicated horribly fast. But then again some people like that. For me, being the rules-ignoring alltime-whinging GM that I am, it's easy to resolve just about any standard situation with a few basic mechanics without looking anything up. When it comes to specifics it sometimes gets a little hairy, especially with decking and rigging but most of the complicated stuff is handled in between runs anyways (initiating, ally summoning, programming, deck design, vehicle tuning...)

So far I haven't found anything better. Actually I haven't found anything that even comes close to Shadowrun concerning athmosphere, versatility and rules design.

I'll join in on listing the things that first grabbed my attention back in 1993:
1) Computers-Had a useful matrix system that was fun to use as opposed to realistic. Also everyone was using BBS to chat. Yeah shadowtalk.

2) Spirits & Astral- Totally different way of dealing with spirits that was very simple and I just loved the insane speeds of astral travel.

3) Contacts- Force those combat monsters to take some social skills. Watch that troll with a 1 charisma and no etiquette spend karma so he can join the fun.

sorry if i offended, snow fox.

s'ok, just wanted to point out the potential. Guys often don't think about that stuff.

Yeah ... I got my first SR fix in 1990 or so. A friend and I had been playing AD&D 2nd edition, and one day in the cafeteria of school he pulled out Shadowrun 1st ed.

Friend-"this game is really cool. Its like DnD but in the future."

Me-"that's interesting. Do they have paladins?"

Friend-"No, man. You play criminals. But its against these evil corporations, so its ok."

Sigh ... how little I understood then. My first character was a rigger. Despite all this I came to love this game. Maybe it was the solid, John-Woo-like gunfights, or very original magic system that looked DnDish on the surface (hellblast) but was far superior under the hood, or just the cynical humor of a world that was like our own, just taken a little further towards the extreme, or perhaps it was that shadowrun came with its own slang dictionary. I think its often overlooked how immersive slang is for an RPG. I didn't get back into DnD until they released Planescape, which, not suprisingly, has its own slang.

Winter of 1989. My friend Brian had just helped himself to a discounted version of SR1. A five finger discounted version. I was 15 years old and had been playing D&D since I was ten I think. My first thought of seeing the book, was how cool Elmore's art was.

We played food fight and mangle the rules horribly, I think we reversed staging and power so it took forever to geek anyone. Oh what fun.

I love Shadowrun, the world, the game, the meta-plot, the races, the rules. I love it all. And unless it becomes complete anime trash, will continue to love it for a long, long time.

Likewise. I say we keep SURGE, but make 4th edition far grittier while at the same time making it generally less ludicrously '80s-style-ly pessimistic. And I personally want to vote Horrors out of canon.

Even if it becomes anime trash, we'll still have fun mangling it on the forums.

In my opinion the coolest thing about Shadowrun is the closeness to real life and the parrellels that can be drawn between the two. The fact that it's far enough in the future to suspend disbelief a little, but close enough that it can relate to modern day problems and issues and what have you.

The fantasy elements I think add just enough flavor and spice to give Shadowrun a very unique feel and make it completely different from everything else out there. I really enjoy the fantasy aspect to it as well, and I was always a big fan of the metaplot, even if it did seem to get a little out of hand with ED references and Immortal Elves and such. It made for a great 'story within the story'. Plus, it never interfered with the ability to keep the streets as mean and ugly as you wanted to.

Shadowrun is Awesome because it is Unique.

Grah. Horrors just turn the game into Tolkien with tac-nukes and guns.

ULTIMATE evil in SR just doesn't fit in my game. Mine is slightly more cyberpunk and slightly less fantasy, though.

Y'see, Tolkienesque requires everyone to unite against the Horrors.

In SR, that just isn't happening.

~J

Still...The idea of presenting ultimate evil in a game already filled with double-crossings just sorta...Meh. I personally like Bug Spirits more than Horrors.

I'm there with you on that one. They are so much more original and icky. They are also close enough to Geiger aliens to get your Aliens combat fix as well.

Aye. Whereas Horrors is ultimate evil in a setting that's supposed to crush your dreams, squash your hopes, tan your hide, and generally kick your ass and leave you for dead in the gutter. Ultimate evil + world already full of it = No fit.

Bug Spirits make better cannon fodder, anyway.

I don't see Horrors as the ultimate evil, just like bug spirits aren't inherently evil, just different. Remember, it's all shades of gray, right? Just because the Horrors survive and thrive on our pain and suffering doesn't really make them evil, just really bad for us. Again to have a concept of 'evil' you have to have a clear moral compass, something that really doesn't exist in Shadowrun or in any cyberpunk genre.

Horrors are just the ultimate Enemy. And the theme of humanity eventually uniting behind a common enemy is the glimmer of hope in a dystopian world. Horrors are that enemy in Shadowrun. Horrors don't turn Shadowrun anymore Tolkeinesque than Elves and Dwarves and Magic do. Horrors do give humanity a common goal and problem, even if 99.99% of humanity as of 2063 doesn't even know they exist or are a threat.

Hmm...You have a point.

I still say Shadowrun is far from being about doing anything as radical as saving the world, though. That's more D&D-esque to me.

I agree with you on that. Most games shouldn't and don't have anything to do with saving the world. But as far as a metaplot goes I don't have a problem with it. And of course if the group wants to do a little 'high fantasy' saving of the world you don't have to break out the d20 books.

My suggestion would be: make the horrors canon in the first place. So far I haven't seen them clearly referenced in any book that I've laid my hands on (granted, I didn't buy some of the newer stuff like Dragons or Threats 2).
It'd be cool to have this underlying danger and brooding threat that no one really knows about (most of you should know by know that I'm a huge Cthulhu/Lovecraft fan). I'm implementing it in my games anyways but it would be cool to see some canon possibility to do so.

Oh - and definately make 4th edition more gritty and dirty. I can really see how the attitude of some players comes to pass with those stupid illustrations in the books. Make it a good deal less comic-book/action-movie like. More realistic, more "shades-of-grey" and generaly a good bit darker.
And hurry up! My 3rd Edition books are rapidly falling apart!

Uhm, last time I checked, the Horrors ARE canon. I assume you remember "Harlequin's Back"? Granted, the Dragon Heart Trilogy pretty much wiped them off the table, but that doesn't necessarily mean we'll never hear from them again. All I can say is...

Shadowrun 3062!