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I was trying not to be too munchy when creating a new decker, but I made him an albino for the hell of it and needed to pick a flaw. I figured since he'll be decking a lot, Night Blindness would be the best flaw to take. Later when buying cyberware, I gave him cybereyes with low light vision (among other mods). That's when I thought, is this a cheapo way around a flaw, do the modifiers stack (+TN for night blindness and -TN for LL), or am I just not allowed to take the flaw if I get cybereyes?

The Abstruse One
A Clockwork Lime
The penalty applies even with cyberware. Add +2 to the total modifier, whatever it is.
IIRC its explained in the SR Comp that the flaw in neurological in nature. So its a problem with how your brain processes images. The TN mod stays even if you have cybereyes.

Of course, this opens up the topic of "Can you fix the Night Blindness flaw w/ brain surgery?"
I don't know.
A Clockwork Lime
Sure, but it takes 20 Karma or agree to take some other 2-point flaw along with said surgery to get the job done. (Or you could just say you got knocked on the head while spending the same amount of Karma/taking another flaw for the same end result.)
Fair enough.
Color Blind specifically says it's neurological as does just plain Blind, but Night Blind doesn't. That's why I asked. The whole both apply thing works for me (it'd be very munchy otherwise), but I was just wondering.

The Abstruse One
QUOTE (Abstruse)
Color Blind specifically says it's neurological as does just plain Blind, but Night Blind doesn't. That's why I asked. The whole both apply thing works for me (it'd be very munchy otherwise), but I was just wondering.

The Abstruse One

Hmmm, I just read the rules and I guess you're right.

Well, it just became neurological in my games. wink.gif
Herald of Verjigorm
Note that blind also has a lesser version for mundanes that is only a 2 point flaw. It allows full use of sight functions through any technology more expensive than cybereyes.

Ok, that's not the exact statement, but it allows you to be physically blind, in a way that cybereyes cannot fix, but still see visual data through simsense for decking, rigging, and other uses.

A night blindness that is a genetic flaw in the person's eyes should not be available to anyone with cybereyes. If someone with such a flaw gets cybereyes, the GM should give him a replacement flaw (or previously mentioned karma drain). Therefore, if you have night blindness and cybereyes, you must have the neurological variant of the problem (even if the books do not mention such a condition).
You have to take one of five flaws when you're an Albino - Night Blind, Sensitive System, Bio-rejection, Color Blind, or Low Pain Tolerance. Out of those, Night Blindness is the least "you're screwed" choice because Color Blind hits you in the Matrix too, cyberware-related flaws are bad since I've already used up 2 points of essence or so and I haven't even gotten headware memory or an Encephylon yet, and the Low Pain Tolerance flaw just sucks all round.

Here's one...what about an Albino Elf with Night Blindness? Does their low light vision cancel it out, do they lose the low light, do both modifiers apply, or are they just flat out not allowed to take it? None of those are said in the book...what about Thermographic vision? Natural thermographic from a troll or drawf?

The Abstruse One
A Clockwork Lime
Once again: The Night Blindness modifiers always apply regardless of what visual augmentation system you're using, whether it's natural Low-Light, cybernetic Low-Light, or Low-Light Goggles. You're still getting a +2 modifier on top of all of those whenever you try to view anything at night.
Is it a official rule that you can remove flaws with karma? Haven't seen it yet, but it seems logical....
And yes, the nightblindness-penalty does add up, both with natural LL, augmented LL and standard vision. But I don't know how it affects thermograffic? When it's based on the heat and not light.... but if I was GM I would say it was affected too, just to avoid munchining
Sorry for reviving this, but I have a few comments on the subject.

Night Blindness is stated specifically to not apply in the Matrix and through Sensors. Technically cybereyes are sensors, replacing your normal eyes with electronic sensors, if you add low-light vision, where's the argument that the internal contrast that is sent to your optic nerve is not boosted slightly to compensate for your brains weaker light discerning ability? - Up cost to reflect it?

Or if cybereyes do not count as sensors, then surely getting a helmet with low-light equipment would remove the penalty?

What about the Adept sensory powers? - You are naturally disposed to see poorly at night, but if you take low-light vision as a boosted sense, the penalty should vanish, no? - What if you buy Low-light vision Twice? - Once to normalize vision, once to gain the bonus.

If even one of these option make you go, "well in this case the modifier should be alleviated", then the other two should have the same effect.

Its true that Night Blindness is probably the least impacting albinism flaw, but its also a flaw thats available to everyone else.

Its a really mild flaw, worth only 1 point to characters who are expected to do most of their work through sensors. - And people with this flaw will surely find ways to compensate for their poor eyes, thermo goggles, increased contrast on your HUD in your helmet etc.

An Adept has to pay 0,25 points for low-light vision. Thats 1/4 of an initiation, so around 3 karma.

The cybereyes costs a few thousand, after streetindex and assuming you get Alphaware.

The helmet with HUD display and a suite of visionsystems are also a few thousand.

As for contrast, if you are a magic type and you have chosen to never get cyberware, then technically Sensitive System and Bio-Rejection are not worth any flaw points at all.

Colorblind, well, its only a problem if you need to pick out one color vs. another. Its perfect greyscale vision in the SR universe. A smart Rigger will use striped wires in his own gear, a burglar has a problem, but everyone else would not be hurt by the flaw at all.

To my eyes, the only flaw that Hurts is the Low Pain Tolerance one. And voila, its also the one scored at 4 points and not just 1 or 2 as the others.

Night Blindness is the only flaw that gives a concrete modifier that comes into play in every single run. Why the hate? nyahnyah.gif - Why not let people compensate for it? - Its NOT specified as being neurological, its IS specified that you can ignore it through sensors.
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