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KCKitsune
The reason I'm asking this is because I was wanting to know if there were any rules and what add-ons can be made for a commlink.

Example, I was wanting to make a poor man's cyberdeck and wanted to add an additional dongle to my Fairlight so I can have an attack dongle and a stealth dongle. This would give me a Attack 6, Sleaze 6, Data Processing 7, Firewall 7 "Ghetto" deck, that would not get you arrested.

If you can add a little more memory, you might even be able to run hacking programs.
hermit
You can run any cyberprogram on any device. However, how would dongles give you such high stats? Aside from only one dongle being possible, as I understand it, you would get an either Attack-1 or Stealth-1 "deck" out of your commlink. And price-wise you'd end up paying just as ridiculously much as you'd pay for a cyberdeck.

The rules are in Data Trails. Since there are no advanced Matrix sourcebooks announced (along the lines of Forbidden Arcana) there are no other rules in other books (aside from a few new decks and comms in a German-only stuffbook).
Imladir
Note that the cost of the dongle is 3000 x Rating^2.
To get what you want, you'd have to pay 216k (and it would be illegal rules-wise, since a 'link can only have one dongle as mentioned previously). For something where you can't switch your attributes when needed, without any useful programs...
KCKitsune
QUOTE (Imladir @ Jun 10 2017, 08:06 AM) *
Note that the cost of the dongle is 3000 x Rating^2.
To get what you want, you'd have to pay 216k (and it would be illegal rules-wise, since a 'link can only have one dongle as mentioned previously). For something where you can't switch your attributes when needed, without any useful programs...


That's the reason I was asking if there were any rules for custom commlinks.

As for the expense... Considering that a Sony CIY-720 is 7 6 5 4 with a device rating 4, costs you 345,000 nuyen.gif, if there was a way to make a commlink with two dongle ports, you can have a "ghetto" Cyberdeck with 6 6 7 7 with a device rating 7, and would only cost you 224,000 nuyen.gif... a cost savings of 121,000 nuyen.gif. If you wanted a deck with higher stats, you would be paying a lot more cash... crippling amounts of cash.

@ hermit: You can get a rating 6 stealth and a rating 6 attack dongle for 108,000 nuyen.gif each... and each is only 12R Availability code. Also these can be more easily stolen than a cyber deck.
Kiirnodel
QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Jun 10 2017, 02:59 AM) *
The reason I'm asking this is because I was wanting to know if there were any rules and what add-ons can be made for a commlink.

Example, I was wanting to make a poor man's cyberdeck and wanted to add an additional dongle to my Fairlight so I can have an attack dongle and a stealth dongle. This would give me a Attack 6, Sleaze 6, Data Processing 7, Firewall 7 "Ghetto" deck, that would not get you arrested.

If you can add a little more memory, you might even be able to run hacking programs.


Quick answer: no, you can't modify a commlink in the way you describe. The rules for customizing devices (which includes commlinks) is in Data Trails, and it basically boils down to a couple of options. a) You can permanently add a Matrix Attribute to a device that didn't have it (aka add Sleaze or Attack) but it starts out at 1 (Costs DRx2 in packs). If you do this, you can also increase that attribute by one more point, but it deals 2 damage that can't be repaired (Costs 2 packs). So for your Device Rating 7 commlink, it would cost a total of 16 packs (about 3,250) plus the time and expertise to install.

However, you cannot also add a memory (program carrier) module (which would cost 900 nuyen plus 2 packs; about 1400), you are limited to only one modification per device. The ability to add the attribute and increase it is an exception.

More importantly, however. You comment about how the commlink "would not get you arrested." Hate to break it to you, but a Cyberdeck isn't inherently illegal. All of the cyberdecks have an Availability code of XXR, which means that they are Registered availability. You can buy and operate a Cyberdeck with a proper license. AND the Attack and Sleaze dongles are the same level of legality. You need to have a license for them too. So if you're going to get arrested for having a Cyberdeck, you would get just as arrested for having the commlink with dongles.
PraetorGradivus
The closest you can come to what you want is EVOTECH HIMITSU that for 11k has A- S 5 D 1 F 2.
You can add an attack dongle... I don't use attack enough to justify an expensive dongle. rating 1 and using edge to bypass limit if I need to.

Add a program carrier with virtual machine.

You're good to go.

Of course, a Little Hornet with a non-standard form factor to make it look like a commlink works too.

Seriously, a Little Hornet with a modified array of 6-3-1-1 for under 91k along with perfect time, overclocker and quick config is all you need. Spending 300k+ on a deck in chargen is insane. If you want it in a nonstandard form factor it goes up to about 118k.
KCKitsune
QUOTE (hermit @ Jun 10 2017, 03:28 AM) *
You can run any cyberprogram on any device. However, how would dongles give you such high stats? Aside from only one dongle being possible, as I understand it, you would get an either Attack-1 or Stealth-1 "deck" out of your commlink. And price-wise you'd end up paying just as ridiculously much as you'd pay for a cyberdeck.

The rules are in Data Trails. Since there are no advanced Matrix sourcebooks announced (along the lines of Forbidden Arcana) there are no other rules in other books (aside from a few new decks and comms in a German-only stuffbook).


Hermit, question for you: Where are the rules saying that any device can run a cyberdeck program. I tried to look up and I couldn't find anything. Any help would be appreciated.
Kiirnodel
The only way to run a cyberprogram on a device other than a cyberdeck or an RCC/Drone is to hardwire a program carrier module into the device.

In that way, any device can run any single program. But without using up the modification cyberprograms are normally limited, says so in the description. "These are programs used in cyberdecks" Basically devices that say they can run cyberprograms are the only ones that are...
KCKitsune
QUOTE (Kiirnodel @ Jun 11 2017, 05:05 AM) *
The only way to run a cyberprogram on a device other than a cyberdeck or an RCC/Drone is to hardwire a program carrier module into the device.

In that way, any device can run any single program. But without using up the modification cyberprograms are normally limited, says so in the description. "These are programs used in cyberdecks" Basically devices that say they can run cyberprograms are the only ones that are...


So if you wire in a program carrier to run virtual machine, you could run two cyberprograms? Say an Agent and Wrapper?
Kiirnodel
QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Jun 11 2017, 09:55 AM) *
So if you wire in a program carrier to run virtual machine, you could run two cyberprograms? Say an Agent and Wrapper?


Debatable. A GM may rule that way, but it is also feasible to rule against that. Basically, there are two rules extrapolations/interpretations:

1) Virtual Machine lets you run 2 additional programs.

2) Virtual Machine increases the number of program slots, but devices that cannot already run programs still can't run programs outside of a program carrier module.

Essentially, it would be like a Paraplegic with Satyr Legs. Satyr Legs increases your movement speed, but your legs don't work so they can't take advantage of that bonus.

Or, better example. Have you ever tried plugging in a DVD-reader into a tablet? Not one of the newer tablet/laptop hybrids, but like an older nook/kindle. The DVD drive doesn't do anything because the tablet doesn't know what the heck it is. A commlink gaining the ability to run two additional programs, which it can't normally run, just doesn't work.
KCKitsune
QUOTE (Kiirnodel @ Jun 11 2017, 02:25 PM) *
Debatable. A GM may rule that way, but it is also feasible to rule against that. Basically, there are two rules extrapolations/interpretations:

1) Virtual Machine lets you run 2 additional programs.

2) Virtual Machine increases the number of program slots, but devices that cannot already run programs still can't run programs outside of a program carrier module.

Essentially, it would be like a Paraplegic with Satyr Legs. Satyr Legs increases your movement speed, but your legs don't work so they can't take advantage of that bonus.

Or, better example. Have you ever tried plugging in a DVD-reader into a tablet? Not one of the newer tablet/laptop hybrids, but like an older nook/kindle. The DVD drive doesn't do anything because the tablet doesn't know what the heck it is. A commlink gaining the ability to run two additional programs, which it can't normally run, just doesn't work.


Depends on if you're running stock OS, or a custom ROM. I do that for my phone and tablets. My phone is running Resurrection Remix (based on LineageOS 14.1). If I were running a custom ROM, then if I REALLY wanted to, I could piece in the drivers into the kernel. I know that I was able to run a keyboard and mouse with my old Nook... not something you can do with stock.

*EDIT* I thought about it, when you wire in a program carrier module, you must be putting in the firmware to allow the device to run cyberprograms, otherwise how would it know how to run the program. So if you run Virtual Machine, you're just creating a space to run two programs... with the drawback of extra damage when you take a hit.
PraetorGradivus
QUOTE (Kiirnodel @ Jun 11 2017, 03:25 PM) *
Debatable. A GM may rule that way, but it is also feasible to rule against that. Basically, there are two rules extrapolations/interpretations:

1) Virtual Machine lets you run 2 additional programs.

2) Virtual Machine increases the number of program slots, but devices that cannot already run programs still can't run programs outside of a program carrier module.

Essentially, it would be like a Paraplegic with Satyr Legs. Satyr Legs increases your movement speed, but your legs don't work so they can't take advantage of that bonus.

Or, better example. Have you ever tried plugging in a DVD-reader into a tablet? Not one of the newer tablet/laptop hybrids, but like an older nook/kindle. The DVD drive doesn't do anything because the tablet doesn't know what the heck it is. A commlink gaining the ability to run two additional programs, which it can't normally run, just doesn't work.


By RAW its not a debate- Program Carrier doesn't work on commlinks because, not as you have argued in point 2, but rather the wording says your deck... and a commlink is not a deck. However RAW is often thrown out with the dish water to make sense of this game. Thank you Catalyst for your wonderful editing and consistent use of wording.

If you're going to spend the money required to turn a commlink into a substandard deck- I'm not going to stop you from putting in a program carrier with virtual machine. I think you're better off with an actual deck myself. But hey- to each his own. I really don't think it breaks the bank.

Me=- I'm more concerned over cheese like..2 used cyberfeet w/bulk[1] armor [3] and skates so we can add 6 armor and double our speed.

Ultimately things that might have a difference between RAI and RAW isn't really a question for this board. Sure you can get peoples opinions, but the final arbiter is your GM- ask him whether or not he'd allow it. Of course, if its for Missions- than the final arbiter are the wonderful people that volunteer their time keeping it going. (No- that wasn't sarcasm like my previous Thank You. The people responsible for maintaining the Missions FAQ probably don't get enough thanks for their hard work.)

edit- and while I'm at it, thanks Kiirnodel. You put in a lot of effort answering questions and offering opinions on this and the official board. I don't always agree with your opinions but usually follow your logic nonetheless.
KCKitsune
QUOTE (PraetorGradivus @ Jun 11 2017, 10:10 PM) *
By RAW its not a debate- Program Carrier doesn't work on commlinks because, not as you have argued in point 2, but rather the wording says your deck... and a commlink is not a deck. However RAW is often thrown out with the dish water to make sense of this game. Thank you Catalyst for your wonderful editing and consistent use of wording.

If you're going to spend the money required to turn a commlink into a substandard deck- I'm not going to stop you from putting in a program carrier with virtual machine. I think you're better off with an actual deck myself. But hey- to each his own. I really don't think it breaks the bank.

Me=- I'm more concerned over cheese like..2 used cyberfeet w/bulk[1] armor [3] and skates so we can add 6 armor and double our speed.

Ultimately things that might have a difference between RAI and RAW isn't really a question for this board. Sure you can get peoples opinions, but the final arbiter is your GM- ask him whether or not he'd allow it. Of course, if its for Missions- than the final arbiter are the wonderful people that volunteer their time keeping it going. (No- that wasn't sarcasm like my previous Thank You. The people responsible for maintaining the Missions FAQ probably don't get enough thanks for their hard work.)

edit- and while I'm at it, thanks Kiirnodel. You put in a lot of effort answering questions and offering opinions on this and the official board. I don't always agree with your opinions but usually follow your logic nonetheless.


Actually, per Data Trails pg 65 you can wire up a cyberdeck module to any device.

The reason I was going on this tangent was because I was wanting a way for non-hackers to be able to defend themselves vs a hacker. If you have a Fairlight Caliban (with an attack dongle 6) and a program carrier with Virtual Machine. You could run a Rating 6 Agent and Wrapper. Wrapper would make your commlink look like something innocent and might fool the enemy hacker for long enough to shoot him in the face (if he's present), or turn off wireless. If the hacker does find you, you have an IC program with Cybercombat 6, Attack 6 and Logic 6** to attack, and Firewall 7 and Willpower 6** to protect yourself.

This gives the street sam/mage some Matrix protection without having to be slaves to the hacker/technomancer

Also with Virtual Machine you could change out the second program for things like Encryption (to make your Firewall cool.gif, Signal Scrubber, Browser, Edit, ect, ect. Because, let's be honest, unless you're a hacker,, you really can't use the cyberdeck to it's fullest extent.


** == Per SR5 core rules page 246, you use the Agent's rating for attributes.
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