Alright, here's the problem. I'm currently playing D&D with a bunch of friends, and we've played several D&D campaigns, way back into AD&D 2 even. I enjoy playing with them, it's a lot of fun, but...

What I really want to play is Shadowrun. I just can't love any D&D campaign, no matter how fun it is or who is running it, the same way that I love everything about SR.

So, does anyone have any ideas on how I can change a bunch of D&D roll-players into Shadowrun role-players?

Get 'em hooked on Earthdawn?

Start them out in raw thuggery jobs. Help them design characters that mirror their favorite classes.

This will eitnher lead you to hate Shadowrun or eventually teach them how much better SR allows them to make their characters.

I ran them in a semi-legal campaign. As detectives, 2 of them took to it like fish and some sort of liquid substance, and the last guy while he resisted before, is enjoying the game thus far.

Put them on an island and make them wear necklaces with bombs in them. Then hand them characters and tell them that unless they can finish the run within three days, the bombs will explode and take out some major blood vessels leading to and from their brains.

~J

What? They don't want to play characters that can carry guns??? Guns rock!

"If there's any one thing that thsi day has taught me, it's that it's better to have a gun and not to need it, then to need a gun and not to have it." -Clarence Worley

Whoever said that has clearly never felt the sinking feeling of walking into a building, knowing there's a security check ahead, and being unsure whether you took those knives out of your bag.

~J

Er, whoopie. You turn around, head into a bathroom and check. It's not the end of the world. Done it, had friends that had done it.

Knew a doctor going through a dicorce that had his wife smuggle a butcher knife onto his carry on bag without his knowledge. Hilarity ensues!

Well, this presupposes a few things: one, that you don't have anyone you can hand the knife to (I didn't). Two, that you need to go into the building (I did). Third, and most importantly, that you like the knife enough to not want to ditch it somewhere (I did).

~J

Yeah, my scenario and the doctor both involved tossing it in the trash, as they were both at airports. A 40$ knife is not worth that hassle.

Strong words.

as a former dungeon crawler, I'll tell you how my gm made the transition for me. (and since I'd played sr before and loathed it, his battle was uphill at best)

He got me to create a character using the points system (becks, much as there are people who defend it, will just alienate people coming from d&d) He emphasised the fact that there were more and varied interesting races to play.

He pointed out that the magic system wasn't broken up into 'cool' & 'sucky', but into 'if you can think of it, it's either already there or part of the infinately moddable system's allowances.

Then he showed me the art.

I tell you, nothing will win over a dyed in the wool dungeoun crawler faster than really cool costumes & special effects.

"what? no rings or potions of protection?" they say?
"we don't need it. that's what (flips to the cyber enhancements and adept powers sections) these are for."

you get the idea?

just point out all the fun goodies that you know they like from D&D, and how SR does them. Don't make such a big fuss over the differences because it will scare them away. Focus on the fun stuff, the special effects and the costumes..... and be sure to tell them there be dragons here...

Have your D&D characters run into a Shadowrun Magician doing an Astral Quest to the metaplane of D&D. He hires them to help him with his "quest". When he dies during the quest, they all get sucked back to Seattle with his body lying there in a hermetic circle in the spare bedroom of his apartment. They have to figure out enough of the world to find a way home, or they are stuck. Elves are elves, dwarves are dwarves, magicians can go astral if they try, etc. Don't tell them it's Shadowrun, just say that "things work differently here".

Have your D&D characters run into a Shadowrun Magician doing an Astral Quest to the metaplane of D&D. He hires them to help him with his "quest". When he dies during the quest, they all get sucked back to Seattle with his body lying there in a hermetic circle in the spare bedroom of his apartment. They have to figure out enough of the world to find a way home, or they are stuck. Elves are elves, dwarves are dwarves, magicians can go astral if they try, etc. Don't tell them it's Shadowrun, just say that "things work differently here".

interesting....

my group have been toying with a crossover for a while now... what an intriguing idea for making it happen

Things get interesting when they see their first ork, gut him, take his stuff, and wondering why everyone's throwing such a hissy fit.

Or they burn the corpse of the first troll they some how kill....

The transition is easy to do, but Id say you gotta provide three things:

1) Read the BBB. If they dont understand the dystopian cyberpunk future that is the SR backdrop, theyre up a creek. In DnD you can make some presuppositions about the world such as magic is magic, theres clerics at the church, somewhere theres a king, etc. Without the same ability to grasp the world, theyre screwed. They dont have to read the rules even, just the parts that describe the world.

2) Change the mentality. Both games have a different bent of playing. Kick in the door style dungeon crawling will NOT move straight to kick in the door style of megacorp HQ running. They need to understand this is going to be more like Ronin, or Bond, or Johnny Mnemonic etc etc. In fact make them go watch a half dozen movies first. By now they should have a clear vision of the world, and what typical characters are like.

3) Make char's with them. Odds are they will wanna know stuff, just like they wanna know which sword is the best. Be prepared to answer all their questions and get some decent characters made up. Id stick to the priority system if theyre still new to games, but you can jump to BP if theyre experienced gamers just moving to a new game. Point being iron out some guys and get a first run done.

Do that, and they should have the mental framework to setup a character in a world that fits with SR pretty well for noobs. Id also tell the players they can change their characters after each game for the first few sessions, as they see how things play out. Ive done this for people the first time they join us, and it works really well. Its a lot easier to jump into a game when you know you can swap in that critical thing you didnt know about, or ditch the cool sounding thing that you find out sucks. When people know their character is a little bit mutable, and that theyre not gonna get stuck playing the same flaw they made just because they didnt know all the way to the end of the character, it makes doing something new a lot easier.

Top movies to watch to get into the Shadowrun mindset:

Ronin <--- Most Important, I'd say. Basically, this movie is a modern day shadowrun, complete with great characters
The Professional
Bladerunner <--- For the gritty distopian future vibe
Hackers <--- Cheesy, but it does seem to fit decking in Shadowrun
Johnny Mnuemonic <--- Feel free to throw popcorn at this movie or watch while drunk, but it's got cyberware and such
Mission Impossible
Underworld <--- For the fantasy meets technology level... plus I think that vampyre's guns are Ares Viper Silverguns!

That's just off the top of my head.

JaronK

It was a joke! 'Cause hers fires silver bullets in that movie!

*sigh*

No one apreciates a good pun anymore.

JaronK

Which is why the joke doesn't work Actually, did she apply a diamond coating to one of weapons, fill it with a spirit and then have sex with it? Because then it would work...

No, but I hear that might happen in Underworld 2.

JaronK

Man, I forgot Bladerunner in my brief movie listing. WTF. Need to go torment myself now with movies like Glitter =(

Two words. Split Second.

My original group was striclty D&D. There was no other game. When i got into college i was introduced to a BUNCH of new games.

I have to admit that the first time i was told we were playing shadowrun (1st ed) i dug my heels in and whined for about an hour. then they explained the minigun to me and i was hooked.

It took me leaving my old group to have my eyes opened.

hehehe, took the PAC for my, but I grok where you are comming from.

I'd also suggest watching The Score if you haven't already. Every aspect of that movie plays into Shadowrun perfectly. You have the old experienced guy, the new hothead, leg work, hiring out the 'decking', a Johnson/Fixer character played by Brando, double-crosses and all sorts of good stuff.

Plus, DeNiro's character's advice to Norton's character is good advice to follow for any Shadowrun group.

Actually, let's add The Italian Job to the list. Perfect example of using brains instead of guns.

JaronK

you guys make it sound like he's convincing his group to change their sexual preference. "hey, guys, let's play Shadowrun this week." whoah, that was tough! if you start proselytizing, your group will resist you almost automatically because human beings hate being told what to do. if you introduce it as another option, another cool game we can get together and play, then your group won't feel like you're trying to change their ways (because you won't be), and they won't feel the need to resist (because you're not pushing them).

if your group is into 'roll-playing', switching games isn't going to change that. nothing short of a basic willingness to try new things can change a roll-player into a role-player, or vice-versa; and nothing short of a miracle from on high can change someone who places value judgements on those terms into someone who just plays the game and has fun doing it.

I'm gonna need a bigger gun.
Hmmm, Not Big Enough!

Split Second

IMDB has a scant few quotes from the movie. Here are a couple

Dick Durkin: We need to get bigger guns. BIG FUCKING GUNS!

Dick Durkin: I don't think this thing thinks it's Satan, I think this thing IS Satan.
Stone: Well Satan is in deep shit.

I say it everytime someone starts discussing SR movies

San tau chi saidoi

Or as I know it - "Skyline Cruisers".

The best non-Anime SR film. Ever. See. It. Now.

We need to send more kung-fu fighting teams to accomplish goals.

~J

I started role-playing by buying 2ed DnD books at a local store. After a few aborted attempts to play, I found a group I liked. About three years ago I fell in with some folks who wanted to play SR. Since then I've been through 4 SR groups and 5 DnD ones, along with the one that got me hooked (and is now 4.5 years old, with two groups of characters, an aborted foray into Spycraft, and a recently started Farscape game).

The net experience, is this. No matter how much people whine about DnD being a dungeon-crawlers game, or SR being being too complex, it is what YOU make it. The first gm for SR wasn't that good at the rules. He was a terrific story-teller, so our games evolved into round-robin writing sessions (not really, but close enough). On the other hand, I've actually seen a hack and slash SR session. I've also seen some hack and slash DnD, but the one I've been with the longest has had games that never involved swinging weapons (sometimes draw to intimidate though) or combat spells (divinations and illusions were quite popular though).

Solkari: The answer to your question is that there is no best way to do this. If they like to role-play and think, they'll succeed in SR quite nicely. If they just want to shoot, maim, and kill, they'll transition to SR only if you as the gm let them. The real thing that you always see flames flying about on this forum is that many here think DnD players are hack and slash only, and never bother trying to find different. I'd advise starting your guys out with the core rule sonly, then expand into magic, rigging, advanced combat, etc... as they feel the need to and are comfortable doing so.

Just make it their D&D character's mind and intellect occupy Shadowrun Characters that YOU make up. Don't spend any time trying to make the conversion exact. Give the magicians spells half-way similar to their D&D spells. Give nobody any firearm skills ... their characters have no idea such things exist. But edged weapons and unarmed combat and pole arms and projectile weapons are all good.

Make their attributes be similar to their D&D characters, so big strong fighter types become big strong fighter types. Same for skinny smart guys. Hi Wisdom should become high Willpower.

Lifestyle is whatever is the apartment of the magician who went on the quest. And maybe he has some team mates that will drop by and take a liking to the D&D characters, and help show them the ropes. Money is a credstick in their pockets with a few hundred nuyen, but they don't know what it is.

When they wake up in the apartment, you can describe their surroundings to them exactly as they would experience it. Let them figure out eventually that it is Earth in our future. You don't need to give them character sheets until they've explored the city, the gangs, the cops, etc.

When they wake up, Elves are taller than Humans, instead of shorter. Dwarves exist.

Hit points go away. Everyone has a condition monitor. Every character is one bullet away from dieing, all the time. Higher hitpoint characters should have a higher Body score. They should feel that the world is a dangerous place. Have them see normal people and gangers die during their first trip outside the apartment. Give them the gritty realism of the shadowrun world.

Have a great time, and tell us how it goes.

/Edit: Maybe at the end of it all, they find a way back to their world where they can do a Raise Dead on the original Shadowrun Magician.

Excellent!

If only I could actually do that. You see, part of my problem is that I'm not the gm for our group. And in our last session, our gm said that we were going to have a balance of role-playing and dungeon crawling, this was of course, while we were crawling through a dungeon.

Well, maybe I'll give him a few weeks before I really start a coup. I know that I have one member of the group on my side. Some of the others seem to have the opinion that I'm hopelessly obsessed with an inferior system and setting, and not even willing to hear me out. I'll just wait and see how much role-playing we do next time.

Maybe a few weeks down the road, the group will give me a shot at actually getting into the game. And maybe a few sessions in, they'll get the hint that they have to look before they leap. I'll let you all know how it goes.

Bring your shadowrun books to the game. Open them to some of your favorite bits of art. Work on characters.

Since men are motivated by breasts, and your friends are probably gamer guys...download some porn girls and print the images out. Scatter pictures while perusing through your books. These are now NPCs you're working on.

Find some total badass pics for guy characters based on what you know of your friends. Have a samurai sword ninja wannabe? Plenty of that image on the net. Basically, you're luring them into interest. Laying paths of cheese to your SR books. When one shows interest, show him the character you've already created you think he'd like.

Going from dungeon hacking DnD to anything else can be hard...if that's the style you're doing. I remember the first time we tried a non fantasy game, ended up walking into every building in a Traveller city. Door to door as we mapped the city. The GM was new too, so that's our whole adventure. Ugh.

Behold, the power of p0rn!