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Savar
Could the Draco Foundation be considered AA? They seem huge.
Sascha Morlok
They are - as the name implies - a foundation and not a corporation. Thus it is restricted to the rulse and laws of foundations, which are not necessarily the same as the ones for corps. Although they have extraterritoriality in the AGS based on the pre-BRA Passauer Verträge from 2011. But this is just on national level.
Savar
Okay, so they may offer SINs as they are extraterritorial? Or are they to small still? For corporations they have to be AA or AAA I know.
Sascha Morlok
No, they don't offer SINs.
Savar
QUOTE (Sascha Morlok @ Jul 26 2017, 04:30 PM) *
No, they don't offer SINs.

Well that idea died.

Thank you for the information!
Kren Cooper
I would disagree - The big D had this in his will "To the first one thousand SINless metahumans to show up at the Seattle offices of the Draco Foundation at 10:00 a.m. on the 12th of October, 2058, I bequeath one valid SIN apiece."
They might not be Draco Foundation SINs, but there were administered by the DF on behalf of the big D. Who is to say those were the only ones they had. Having a VP as your CEO opens all kinds of doors.

I would agree that as a Foundation, the rules and semantics would be very very different (if your players have "Law" or "Corporate Law" skills, have 'em make a check), but functionally, from an in game perspective for nealy all aspects of a Shadowrunner, I would regard both the DF and the AF as equivalent to an AA corp. They are multinational and have budgets rivalling small countries, their own armed security forces that could form battallions, access to military grade firepower (probably with an emphasis on the magical end of the spectrum - but on the other hand, look at how much money the Big D gave away in his will, and he still had plenty left to run the DF - that's a lot of financial clout to justify permits to buy security and military grade gear), and plenty of top level researches and facilities. These are not local companies, they are the big leagues...


Out of curiousity, I've jut gone through the will, and totalled up the amount given out by the Big D. I've not counted property or objects, because the values could be anything.
I've made the following assumptions for several of the items that had a Nuyen value. There is a rewards of 1 million for blood mages and toxic spirits - I've assumed at least a slush fund of 100 million to allow for these. For the 1% share of Ares, I've assigned a value of 100 million. For the advances in Deep Space living and travel, I've assigned a 100 million slush pot for this (there was 50 million for each, so minimum case is one for each, right?), and I've excluded the Art Dankwalther because of the unknown exchange rate from UCAS dollars to Nuyen)

But the will still leaves disbursements of over 1,915 million - and that left enough to still run the Draco Foundation afterwards.
Checking against https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_count...y_GDP_(nominal), that means that the will gave away enough cash to register as the 8th largest country by GDP assuming an equal Nuyen to Dollar ratio...
Sascha Morlok
As they are no AA, those can't be DF-SINs. It's said that they "a SIN", probably UCAS, but could be any SIN. Also I would disagree that DF and AF have their own Military. This is restricted to A-level corps and they aren't even A-corps (as they are no corps). I would allow them their own security force, but they are limited to national laws regarding arms and what they are allowed to do. Otherwise they would hire local private security companies / Knight Errant.

EDIT: Exchange rate for Nuyen / UCAS-Dollars is 3,50 in 2074.
Nath
QUOTE (Kren Cooper @ Jul 27 2017, 02:23 PM) *
I would disagree - The big D had this in his will "To the first one thousand SINless metahumans to show up at the Seattle offices of the Draco Foundation at 10:00 a.m. on the 12th of October, 2058, I bequeath one valid SIN apiece."
They might not be Draco Foundation SINs, but there were administered by the DF on behalf of the big D. Who is to say those were the only ones they had. Having a VP as your CEO opens all kinds of doors.
I'd point out that Nadja Daviar wasn't the Vice-President of the UCAS when Dunkelzahn wrote his Will and when he died. Save for the usual "draconic chessmaster" trope, he had no way to be sure that Kyle Haeffner would pick her as VP.

Actually, it's not even clear when did Dunkelzahn write each of his will's item, so possible a number of them were written weeks if not years before the election results or even his candidacy.

The one thousand number obviously is an arbitrary one. Possibly so as not to piss off the authorities, possibly simply just to look good enough while leaving the SINless issue lingering to spark a national debate. Seattle may have been chosen as one of the UCAS city with the largest SINless population. But maybe Dunkelzahn secured a deal with the Seattle state government to issue those SIN. Or maybe he found a loophole that was specific to Seattle state laws that could get those people SIN with the right setup (like, "Are also automatically eligible to SIN issued by the State people who establish their residency within the State of Seattle boundaries and own a minimum of 0.05 acre of land inside State of Seattle state boundaries, on the condition that the concerned property has been acquired before 12:01 AM on January 26th, 2018 or has been acquired from its owner as of 12:01 AM on January 26, 2018").

QUOTE (Kren Cooper @ Jul 27 2017, 02:23 PM) *
I've excluded the Art Dankwalther because of the unknown exchange rate from UCAS dollars to Nuyen
QUOTE (Sascha Morlok @ Jul 27 2017, 07:35 PM) *
Exchange rate for Nuyen / UCAS-Dollars is 3,50 in 2074.
In 2050 (The Neo-Anarchist Guide to North America, the UCAS Dollar was averaging 0.20 nuyen (with quick fluctuation in a 0.16-025 bracket). In August 2063 (Shadows of North America, the reference for 1$ was still 0.20¥. So at the time of Dunkelzahn's death and will execution, chances are the exchange rate was close enough. The Art Dankwalther donation would have worth about 6,8 billion nuyen.

I don't remember any mention of UCAS dollar as high as 0.2857 nuyen before 2074 in Dirty Tricks (funny all those subtle things they wrote in to give UCAS some standing).

QUOTE (Kren Cooper @ Jul 27 2017, 02:23 PM) *
For the 1% share of Ares, I've assigned a value of 100 million.
You're probably off by an order of magnitude.

IRL, the top ten market capitalization have been in the 250 to 750 billion US dollar range since a few decades. Most price suggests one nuyen worth about the same as one 1990-2020 US dollar adjusted for inflation. So a 100 billion nuyen market cap for the AAA prime megacorporation would be a (very) conservative estimate, and a case could be made for number tens or hundreds time higher.

So 1% of Ares Macrotechnology should be valued a minimum of 1 billion nuyen (and likely much more).

QUOTE (Kren Cooper @ Jul 27 2017, 02:23 PM) *
But the will still leaves disbursements of over 1,915 million - and that left enough to still run the Draco Foundation afterwards.
Checking against https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_count...y_GDP_(nominal), that means that the will gave away enough cash to register as the 8th largest country by GDP assuming an equal Nuyen to Dollar ratio...
Also some order of magnitude off. The GDP of Italy, ranked 8th by the IMF in 2016, is 1,850 billion dollar.

1,915 million dollar would beat Djibouti 1,894 million for the 167th position. Even by raising the estimate for Ares shares to that one billion figure, you would end up somewhere between South Sudan 162th and Timor-Leste 163th positions.
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