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Tiralee
Hoi Chummers,

Was just wondering, how big a task pool can you generate?
A maxed-out Encephalon will give you +2 Int and +3 task pool...can you get any more?

I swear I've read this a hundred times, but task pool...you just use it for skills, right? As in, any skill?
Damn. I've been an idiot.



Happy Fraggin'!
Tiralee
Bodak
QUOTE (Tiralee @ Aug 2 2017, 08:18 AM) *
how big a task pool can you generate?
A maxed-out Encephalon will give you +2 Int and +3 task pool.

Unless that's from an erratum I haven't seen, I don't think that's right.

M&M.19: Chipjack Expert Driver [3] gives you a +3 Task Pool for the Skillsoft in the chipjack's surface jackpoint
M&M.20: Encephalon [2] gives you a +2 Task Pool for Intelligence-linked Skills (and pretends Intelligence is 2 higher for the sole purpose of determining Karma costs of learning / improving Intelligence-linked Skills)
M&M.72: Cerebral Booster [2] gives you +1 Task Pool (and +2 Intelligence)

QUOTE (Tiralee @ Aug 2 2017, 08:18 AM) *
you just use it for skills, right? As in, any skill?
No - only the skills it applies to.
Tiralee
Thanks Bodak!

Yeah, Forgot about the Cerebral booster, mainly because of dem Nuyen - still, it makes all those thousands of blue-green paydata runs worth it, yeah? smile.gif

-Tir

Still corrupting the innocent, bwhahahahahaa
tisoz
Does the Encephalon still allow someone using a VCR to slot Skillsofts? They can't use skillwires because rigging is mental, but in SR2 it did let you slot and use any softs that could be used while jacked in and rigging, the Encephalon could interpret them.
Bodak
QUOTE (tisoz @ Aug 3 2017, 07:07 AM) *
Does the Encephalon still allow someone using a VCR to slot Skillsofts? They can't use skillwires because rigging is mental, but in SR2 it did let you slot and use any softs that could be used while jacked in and rigging, the Encephalon could interpret them.
No - it hasn't got that function any more. You need a Chipjack to access Active/Know/Lingua/Data-softs or a Datajack and headware memory and a Skillwire system (for Activesofts) or Knowsoft link or Image link (for Knowsofts) or Display link (for Datasofts). Real headware memory (MM.20) can be used for active and storage memory (RAM and SSD) whereas everything else (such as DNI memory in a cyberlimb) can only be used for storage memory and the Skillwires don't have their own memory (CC.60) so you can't just slot an OMC into a datajack -- unless you want to pay Essence and Nuyen through the nose you really need a chipjack.

The SR2 rule I think you are referring to is:
QUOTE (R2.17)
Furthermore, the unique nature of the encephalon enables riggers to use Driving skillsofts without the need for skillwires for the purposes of rigging. Characters [who have VCRs] without encephalons cannot use skillsofts without skillwires.
whereas now we have
QUOTE (R3.27)
Skillwires do not work for a rigger who has gone into the machine. Likewise a character who is remotely piloting a vehicle cannot use skillwires and activesofts. Nothing prevents a rigger from accessing or using knowsofts or datasofts while rigging.
tisoz
Thanks, I would say the part about activesofts answers it.

I would then have to ask, "Why the change?" When I was re-reading 2nd, I liked the idea. I checked 3rd but guess I ignored the quoted part as it seemed to be addressing skillwires. But I like the idea. I agree, skillwires would not have much use but I am not following the logic of why if the skill is present in your mind, why it can't be used while rigging? Just game balance? The rigger character would need even less skill points if he can just buy more skillsofts with the huge resources already needed?
Bodak
QUOTE (tisoz @ Aug 4 2017, 03:27 AM) *
if the skill is present in your mind, why it can't be used while rigging?
Drones and vehicles with Autosoft Interpretation use Softs that are like Activesofts but completely incompatible with them. I think this is justified considering Activesofts such as Athletics will be doing things like clenching the adrenal glands and contracting muscles within the safe tension limits of tendons and ligaments, whereas an Autosoft is pumping hydraulic fluid into pistons and ensuring the motors and processors don't overheat. Even if your rigger is jumped into an anthroform drone, it still doesn't have any of the wetware an Activesoft can address (via Skillwires or, hypothetically, by the Rigger Interface "black box" which seems to do the same job of translating neurological and mechanical signals).

There are plenty of active skills that don't depend on the rigger's wetware though: Biotech/Telepresence (MM.139) for jumping into a Valkyrie module; Mechanical Arm Operation (R3.24) and any of the Vehicle/Remote Operations skills you're only ever going to use in a drone; and Small Unit Tactics - for them the Skillwires really don't get to flex your muscles. Therefore the Activesofts jacked into them are going to be functionally very similar to Autosofts streamed from your RCDeck. (Maybe Small Unit Tactics should have been a Knowledge skill in the first place.)

Often, physically-enhancing 'ware has about as much benefit on simsense environments as each other, ie decking the Matrix as it does on rigging. But Activesofts are applicable to decking.
QUOTE
"The Task Pool provided by a chipjack expert driver with a Computer activesoft would also be used as additional Hacking Pool dice. All of these Hacking Pool modifiers are cumulative."
So you can deck just fine using an Activesoft while your Skillwires really don't get to flex your muscles (RAS override and all). It would make sense for such "inactive" Active skills as Computer, Small Unit Tactics, etc. to be addressable in simsense from a chipjack without Skillwires, but I guess someone decided the rules were complicated enough (!) already that it wasn't worth deciding.
Bodak
Sorry - that last quote was from Matrix p26.

Rather than the absolute prohibition of accessing Skillwires while rigging on R3.27 I think an appropriate house-rule would be to instead allow the "Modify by +8 all Perception tests and actions involving the real world" (MM.21) penalty due to the RAS Override suppressing I/O from/to your meatbod (and its cybersenses and Skillwires).

Hopefully this will be one of many areas Kagetenshi's SR3R project will improve.
Titan
QUOTE (Bodak @ Aug 5 2017, 02:19 AM) *
Hopefully this will be one of many areas Kagetenshi's SR3R project will improve.


Thank you for mentioning this project. I wasn't aware of it before.

Is there anywhere to get the rules as they are now? I quickly looked through that forum, and any links I saw to the current rules don't produce anything usable. I also noticed the last activity on that forum was over 3 years ago. It doesn't bode well for the completion of the project.
Bodak
I don't know - you'd need to contact Kagetenshi.

Ideally, SR3R would compile all their fixes into one volume so that players could apply it like an overlay where ever they like it. Quite some effort has gone into that project with the aim of improving play.
Lionesque
I've looked around on the SR3R-forum, but only managed to find a very incomplete PDF with some of the rules dated August 10 2011; maybe it's just that my search-fu is weak (I *knew* I should have put more points into Computer!), can anyone point me to a more complete SR3R-ruleset? And you better make it snappy, my Predator II is smartlinked and my mohawk is newly set, so watch it, chummer! biggrin.gif
Link
QUOTE (Lionesque @ Aug 9 2017, 02:55 PM) *
I've looked around on the SR3R-forum, but only managed to find a very incomplete PDF with some of the rules dated August 10 2011; maybe it's just that my search-fu is weak (I *knew* I should have put more points into Computer!), can anyone point me to a more complete SR3R-ruleset? And you better make it snappy, my Predator II is smartlinked and my mohawk is newly set, so watch it, chummer! biggrin.gif

You could ask nezumi, I believe he used some SR3R in his games.
http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showuser=5760.
Lionesque
QUOTE (Link @ Aug 9 2017, 08:40 PM) *
You could ask nezumi, I believe he used some SR3R in his games.
http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showuser=5760.


Thanks!
tisoz
QUOTE (Bodak @ Aug 5 2017, 03:19 AM) *
Sorry - that last quote was from Matrix p26.

Rather than the absolute prohibition of accessing Skillwires while rigging on R3.27 I think an appropriate house-rule would be to instead allow the "Modify by +8 all Perception tests and actions involving the real world" (MM.21) penalty due to the RAS Override suppressing I/O from/to your meatbod (and its cybersenses and Skillwires).

Hopefully this will be one of many areas Kagetenshi's SR3R project will improve.

Thanks for addressing the issue. But If anything, drones being able to use softs similar to activesofts only weakens the argument for not continuing to allow characters with Encephalons to use skillsofts while purely rigging as they could in the previous edition.

I think I'll just house rule it. I was hoping for an explanation rationalizing why it changed, maybe just a missed cut and paste, lol.
Bodak
QUOTE (tisoz @ Aug 13 2017, 09:21 PM) *
drones being able to use softs similar to activesofts only weakens the argument for not continuing to allow characters with Encephalons to use skillsofts while purely rigging as they could in the previous edition.
Not really. I don't see how you've come to that conclusion.
QUOTE (R3 p44 @ ' post=)
Autosofts are dedicated software suites that combine advanced intelligence systems with a drone's built-in neural network, expanding its capabilities. In effect, autosofts provide a drone with new skills and abilities, similar to a skillsoft. Autosofts are essentially "plug-and-play" software chips that may be used in any drone equipped with an autosoft-interpretation system
QUOTE (R3 p142 @ ' post=)
The autosoft interpretation system is essentially a "skillwire" system for drones. The autosoft system allows a drone to interpret the programming on either an autosoft or a knowsoft and to utilise the ability or skill encoded there. Autosoft systems cannot read or use activesofts.
As I said, for most skills, autosofts and skillsofts are fundamentally very different.
QUOTE (Bodak @ Aug 4 2017, 04:44 AM) *
Activesofts such as Athletics will be doing things like clenching the adrenal glands and contracting muscles within the safe tension limits of tendons and ligaments, whereas an Autosoft is pumping hydraulic fluid into pistons and ensuring the motors and processors don't overheat. Even if your rigger is jumped into an anthroform drone, it still doesn't have any of the wetware an Activesoft can address


Now, if you had said you should be able to plug an autosoft chip into your Encephalon and stream it to your drone's autosoft interpretation system, that sounds viable. As it is though, it sounds like you maybe just a missed cut and paste somewhere above.
tisoz
My point is drones can use autosofts. Autosofts are drone versions of activesofts. The autosoft interpretation system is like an encephalon, if it was like skillwires, it would be something like rigger adaptation.

A rigger can jump into a drone and he loses control of his body, having those sensations replaced by simsense versions of the drone. The rigger is using active skills with only the power of his mind, imposing his thoughts through the rigger adaptation to the drone. This is the reasoning behind skillwires and activesofts not working while rigging because the activesofts are replicating muscle memory through the skillwires, which makes some sense because it is producing physical results and those physical results are shut down and overridden by the VCR.

The Encephalon in 2nd edition allowed the rigger to use activesofts while rigging, which means jumped into a drone, without any need for skillwires because the rigger is calling on the same memory to use them whether it was real memory the rigger learned in the physical world or bought memory on a skillchip being recalled through the encephalon. I have never seen any explanation why they suddenly quit working in 3rd edition. This is why I threw out there that maybe it was overlooked in a cut and paste between editions, as I overlooked it back when I played 2nd edition for years. Now looking into 2nd edition again, even if a character did not have the encephalon, it looks like they could use activesofts if they had the skillwire system.

page 17 Rigger 2: Furthermore, the unique nature of the encephalon enables riggers to use Driving skillsofts without the need for skillwires for the purposes of rigging. Characters without encephalons cannot use skillsofts without skillwires.

Did they forget that a character with a chipjack could use knowsofts and linguasofts, or are they saying that riggers could use skillsofts while rigging if they had an encephalon or skillwires, or even both?

All the explanations so far ignore Rigger 2 as quoted above. Rigger 3 changes how skillwires work to only allowing them while physically controlling a vehicle, going so far to state: page 27 rigger 3: Because control of a rigged vehicle takes place entirely within a rigger's brain, skillwires do not work for a rigger who had gone into the machine. If a character has a driving skillsoft slotted in a chipjack, the encephalon should still be able to interpret it, make it seem as though the character knows it, and since it is totally within his mind, be able to use it while he is in the machine. Depending on how much one allows chipjacks to interpret knowsofts and linguasofts, maybe just the chipjack is enough to interpret the driving skillsoft.

Obviously, something changed regarding skillwires and rigging between 2nd and 3rd edition based on physically driving the vehicle. Did it actually change regarding the encephalon and chipjacks or did it get overlooked? The physical aspect regarding skillwires makes sense, but I see no explanation for things purely in one's mind to no longer work. Was it a missed cut and paste or due to some kind of game balance or...?











Bodak
QUOTE (tisoz @ Aug 14 2017, 03:31 AM) *
The autosoft interpretation system is like an encephalon, if it was like skillwires, it would be something like rigger adaptation.
Ah right! Yes, I think I see what you mean. Indeed, the connection is something like brain-VCR-datajack-fibreoptic-RCDeck-RCNetwork-RCInterface-Rigger Adaptation-servos and pistons. Naturally, the VCR at one end handles the whole convert-brain-activity-to-electronic-signals part (R3.26). But then the Rigger Adaptation at the other end is a "black box" that translates machine code into neurological stimuli and vice versa (R3.130). Hadn't that been done already by the VCR?

I can see what you're saying about Skillwires and Rigger Adaptation - they are essentially the inverse of each other: Skillwires allow electronics to drive a meat body; Rigger Adaptation allows a meat brain to drive an electronic body.

QUOTE ('R3 p142')
The autosoft interpretation system comes equipped with a number of chip ports equal to the drone's Pilot rating.
This is indeed like the SR2 Encephalon and like the SR3 Multi-slot Chipjack (MM p22). But the SR3 Encephalon doesn't mention having a port.

QUOTE (tisoz @ Aug 14 2017, 03:31 AM) *
I have never seen any explanation why they suddenly quit working in 3rd edition.
A similar thing happened to the Program Carrier. I mean, there's a single reference in Shadowtalk that says it was deprecated because taking Matrix damage corrupted cellular integrity, but that's it. I haven't seen even a Shadowtalk rumour for why Encephalons changed.

QUOTE (tisoz @ Aug 14 2017, 03:31 AM) *
All the explanations so far ignore Rigger 2 as quoted above.
Although I first cited the excerpt from Rigger 2 the only potential explanation I offered was:
QUOTE (Bodak @ Aug 4 2017, 04:44 AM) *
It would make sense for such "inactive" Active skills as Computer, Small Unit Tactics, etc. to be addressable in simsense from a chipjack without Skillwires, but I guess someone decided the rules were complicated enough (!) already that it wasn't worth deciding.


QUOTE (tisoz @ Aug 14 2017, 03:31 AM) *
Depending on how much one allows chipjacks to interpret knowsofts and linguasofts, maybe just the chipjack is enough to interpret the driving skillsoft.
While Skillwires have a limit to the rating of an Activesoft that can run on them (CC.58) there's no such limit imposed on chipjacked Know/Lingua/Datasofts. In contrast, Autosoft Interpreters limit Autosofts (like Activesofts) and Knowsofts (unlike chipjacks) to a rating equal to the Pilot. Therefore a Rigger Adaptation is inadequate prerequisite for Autosoft Interpretation; a Remote Control Interface is also necessary to provide the Pilot rating.
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