Hoi chums, I need to pick your brains some more for material I'm working on. I'm working on an arc that involves the subjugation of an individual by an outside force, and want some feedback on the angles I've pinned down. The core conflict involves a tyke-bomb who is having their will crush by an inhuman entity, with the outsider wanting to turn the kid into a puppet. To facilitate this the outsider has, through methods inherent to their nature, completely block all recognition of names to isolate the kid. The tricky part is that both sides have their flaws, which I'll outline in their own sections;

Magic: The outsider is a blood spirit, and the kid themself is an adept.
Pros)
-Spirit abilities (magic) manages name sealing better
-Killing makes the spirit stronger (Thing from inspiration material I want)
-Metaplanes make team effort resolution easier
Cons)
-Inhabitation not an ordinary BS power
-Adept-based tyke-bombs seems weird thematically
-Assensing could sniff out BS

Tech: Outsider as rogue AI, kid is cybered
Pros)
-Better fit for setting (Gunslinger Girl)
-Better fit for solo climax (don't say anything)
Cons)
-AI assimilation very complicated
-No killing for power (Seriously, important)
-Decker could sniff out AI, more common than Mages

Presently, I'm leaning more towards the magic setup, as it's truer to the material that inspired this idea in me, and gets some secondary things better, but there are issues that give me pause. With the right prodding I could be convinced to go the tech angle over magic. I'll provide links to the source material on request, though be aware it's hella spoiler-y.

For the tech angle, the AI could be killing deckers to build some sort of computer cluster. That would give you the killing for power thing and explain why some decker hasn't figured out what's going on yet.

Also, you could play that off as the AI appearing to be an agent/IC or similar. Deckers are probably more common than mages, but spirits are definitely more common and recognizable than AI.

As for the magic side, it could be that they would have created inhabitation blood spirits (it's a reasonable idea) if they had bothered creating more than one page total of things blood mages could do and toxic mages could do.

Interesting stuff, Iduno. For the tech side, how would you go about involving the whole group in driving off the AI? Not saying that that's what I want to happen, just that I want to be prepare for that outcome. With magic, I can always whip up some 'metaplane journey' thing to beat up the spirit on it's new home turf.

I was thinking of a metaplanar journey as a thing only mages can do. Which edition are you playing?

Following the idea of the AI building a computer cluster, maybe the final battle is players assault the guards and drones protecting the cluster in meatspace while the decker fights the AI in the matrix (or joins in the fight against the guards and drones, depending on which edition you're in), then someone destroys the cluster with the AI in it. Several sessions before that, they have a battle against the tyke-bomb, assuming that's the real villain, some time passes, and the AI strikes out at them/takes out a decker they know to steal his/her stuff.

Nowadays I play 4e.

Hmm. Thinking about it, I had my eyes set on the Astral Gate power, or whatever it's called, but that would mean getting a Free Spirit involved.

As for the tyke-bomb itself, I was thinking something that barring player action would keep the kid alive throughout. The whole thrust of it being to try and save them from a living hell. This would only get used for a group that's overall morally upstanding.

I know you were asking Iduno about this, but since you're playing SR4, then you can have every non Decker character play an Agent that's running on their character's commlink. You can have it that the Agent's Virtual Person software mimics their player character. I mean with a Response 6 Commlink and the Program options from Unwired you can pull it off.

Here's what a "Virtual" version of a character would be like: Agent (rating 6) with Ergonomic and Adaptability Program Options. Have the Agent running Virtual Person (for the character "emulation") and any hacking programs that the character would desire.

I wasn't asking Iduno specifically, it's just that he was the only one that decided to reply.

As for the Agent thing, not sure how much that would help. All the stuff I've run, if someone wasn't a rigger or a hacker, they never put more effort into commlink stuff than but a 'link and OS.

That's just sad. My combat medic mage not only has cyberware, but in 4th edition I spent a lot on his commlink and his software.

For at least my IRL groups, until 4e I just had computer stuff outsourced to an NPC decker, so I'm not as knowledgeable about Matrix stuff. Said IRL groups likely just adjusted to that. As for the PbP group I had recently, I've got nothing.

So part of what I wanted to focus on with this was the conflict between the tyke-bomb and the devil. With regards to the tech angle, I had been considering giving the kid, among other things, a basic MBW system as a means for the two to fight each other for control. Having had some time to think about this, it would seem like even a low-powered AI would just be able to spam commands to the signal processor and just brute force the kid into compliance. Given this, it would seem like my only option would be using some collection of low-key 'warez and good old manipulation, with the latter being an option due to the AI evolving from agent loaded with Psychology softs. Thoughts?

That sounds like fun. Let us know how it goes.

The combination of skillwires in the MBW system, and the psycology knowledge of the AI can make for interesting times.

The thing is, the level of control that the MBW system would offer would trivialize the conflict between the two, in favour of the AI. How should I go about making it more back and forth between the two?

As far as the whole blocked names thing, I was thinking judicious use of a data lock, or whatever it was called, the one that prevents memories from forming while its active.

I'm actually curious as to what people would think of the source of inspiration for this mission. I expect some people to call me a crazy bastard for attempting to adapt what I did. Might post links later when I get home.

For now, I'd like some pointer with regards to stating out the AI. Ive never done anything with them before, and I'm not interested in making a big bad here, just a villain for this small scale story.

Someone probably should have asked by now, but what is the show/movie/comic you're getting the idea from. I'm not familiar with it.

The core idea itself I saw in a piece of fanfiction. Don't laugh. Said fic was itself adapted from a video game.

The fic is here: https://archiveofourown.org/works/4983040
Said fic contains MASSIVE spoilers for the game from which it is adapted.

The game in question can be bought here: http://store.steampowered.com/app/391540/Undertale/

I very much expect anyone familiar with the game to call me crazy for attempting to adapt this, given how idealistic it can get at times. I just really enjoyed it, and developing this arc is something I want to do, just to say I have.

Jeez, it's dead here.

Still looking for help grok-ing AI rules.

Unless you use the terrible rules from Runner's Companion, their stats are "as high as you want, plus one (more for Deus)." Also not great.

I'd stat up what you expect them to be able to do, and what you want it to not be able to do, and throw together dice pools for those. Based on what you've said: can operate skillwires, has knowledge:psychology, probably some good charisma skills. Maybe it's terrible at cybercombat, because that isn't what it was created for. So it hides/pretends to be a metahuman instead. Decide if you want it to be better than the PCs at what it does, and much worse at what it isn't good at (or just 0/incompetence for those skills).