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Bertramn
On p206 in the Sr3 book, when describing the cyberdeck, it states "If the decker increased his Bod Rating by 2,...".

I found no Action or System Operation that mentions that the Persona Programs can be shifted in this way. Is this just badly written, or am I overlooking something that enables a player to shift these values in or between decking runs?
Glyph
It is talking about allocating the (MPCP x 3) points among the Persona ratings - So it means Body of 8 as opposed to having them all at 6, adding that now there needs to be a total of -2 among the other Persona programs.
Bertramn
yknow I am pretty sure you answered a question there, theoretically, but not the one I was asking. I knew that it talked about allocating Persona Programs.

My question was whether this is a one-time thing when buying the deck, or a tactical action you can do anytime.
I knew WHAT is being done, thanks, I just don't know WHEN I can do it.
Haywire
It's not an action you can do in combat, but as I play it you can tweak it whan you want before the decking run (i.e. you start rolling dices).
Kren Cooper
I think it's not particularly well written, and that it represents a program rating - like having a sleaze, or an analyze utility.
You can purchase, or write a different rating program to load on your deck, but it will use more 'bandwidth' and one of the others would need to come down (assuming you've spent all your persona points).

Unless you were allowing a program to be written with the "adaptive" style, like some skill chips, I would say you could not change the rating easily, and definitely not as an quick action before starting a run or matrix search. Just my 2p worth.
Bertramn
@Haywire

But that's a houserule, right?

@Kren

Including the "Matrix" rulebook from 2000, I have not found a reference anywhere as to how long this would take, or if it is even possible, aside from the passage I quoted earlier.

I'd tend to agree with you, but I might even go as far as to say that the Persona Programs are basically Hardware, which would mean you'd have to swap out some chips to influence their makeup, which would at least require you to jack out, turn off the deck, and do an Electronics Test. Having a backup deck would make sense here.


An additional question:
It states on p223 under the Initiative header of the Cybercombat section: "The Initiative of a decker is based on the Reaction Attribute of the deckerís persona."

My problem: The persona has the B.E.M.S. Attributes, none for Reaction. What do they mean here?
Is the Reaction Attribute of the Decker's Persona their meat-Reaction modified by their Response Increase?
Cochise
QUOTE (Bertramn @ Apr 27 2018, 01:26 AM) *
On p206 in the Sr3 book, when describing the cyberdeck, it states "If the decker increased his Bod Rating by 2,...".

I found no Action or System Operation that mentions that the Persona Programs can be shifted in this way. Is this just badly written, or am I overlooking something that enables a player to shift these values in or between decking runs?


Well, it's certainly not one of the highlights in terms of writing but SR3 (and other version) do have a fair share of stuff with worse descriptions.

Page 206 merely spells out the difference between those two MPCP ratings examples of MPCP8/6/6/6/6 vs. MPCP8/8/5/6/5. The first and most important thing to note is this: Persona Programs are programs that run on firmware level within the hardware. They come on specialzied optical chips (OCC) - an equivalent to PROM technology. You can write the desired code onto the chip once and after that cannot be altered unless replaced with a different chip with different code. Unfortunately the core rules do a really bad job of spelling that out and in the Matrix rule book you have to read much of the custruction rules to get that information.

=> There's no direct shifting mechanism that would allow a decker to alter current Persona Program rating on the fly. The core rules assume that a decker decides which ratings his persona chips have when buying the deck, repeating the process whenever he gets a new deck (unless of course he finds a used one with a specific chip setup already in place). Core rules also lack regulations on how to aquire and install different persona chips. But once you use the deck constructions rules from the Matrix rule book it's possible to program, cook and install new persona chips on your own. Programming and cooking each take their own times, actual installation takes a base time of 1 hour per chip and requires an appropriate tool kit. Within those rules it's possible to buy programmed and cooked persona chips from third parties and then just install those instead - provided that MPCP limitations are respected.

Stricly speaking the rules don't even disallow to have the Persona Programs running on OMCs (rewritable chips) but actually allowing that in game would just open up a can of worms with no real benefits because the decker would still have to swap the chips physically.

QUOTE (Bertramn @ Apr 28 2018, 08:05 PM) *
Including the "Matrix" rulebook from 2000, I have not found a reference anywhere as to how long this would take, or if it is even possible, aside from the passage I quoted earlier.


Pointers on sources:
P. 54 MATRIX - Optical Chips and Encoders
P. 55 MATRIX - Cooking Tests
P. 59 MATRIX - Persona Chips

QUOTE (Bertramn @ Apr 28 2018, 08:05 PM) *
I'd tend to agree with you, but I might even go as far as to say that the Persona Programs are basically Hardware, which would mean you'd have to swap out some chips to influence their makeup, which would at least require you to jack out, turn off the deck, and do an Electronics Test. Having a backup deck would make sense here.


They are hardware and they require jacking out in order to be replaced ... and it's Computer B/R test against TN of the chips rating.

QUOTE (Bertramn @ Apr 28 2018, 08:05 PM) *
It states on p223 under the Initiative header of the Cybercombat section: "The Initiative of a decker is based on the Reaction Attribute of the deckerís persona."

My problem: The persona has the B.E.M.S. Attributes, none for Reaction. What do they mean here?
Is the Reaction Attribute of the Decker's Persona their meat-Reaction modified by their Response Increase?


p. 223 (final paragaph left column) - Initiative: Icons with a reaction attribute determine initiative in accordance to standard rules -> Yes a decker icon is one that has a reaction attribute (the reaction of the decker)
p. 223 (right column) - Decker Initiative: Special rules on what affects said Decker initiative in terms of reaction modifications.

So yes, it's natural reaction which in turn stems from (natural quickness + natural intelligence)/2 plus 1D6 base initiative further modified by Response Increase of the used deck. Determining natural reaction can be bit of a mess because Bioware implants do alter attributes as if it was a natural thing in general but with special rules as per implant description. Bioware implants that partially affect decker reaction / initiative:

  • Adrenalin Pump (Reaction but no double dipping on Quickness)
  • Suprathyroid Gland (Reaction and Quickness bonus can increase Reaction further)
  • Cerebral Booster (Increase to Intelligence affects Reaction - Level 2 will add 1 Task Pool die)




Bertramn
Thanks man!

I think that answers all my questions.
Bodak
QUOTE (Cochise @ Apr 29 2018, 11:34 AM) *
takes a base time of 1 hour per chip and requires an appropriate tool kit. Within those rules it's possible to buy programmed and cooked persona chips from third parties and then just install those instead - provided that MPCP limitations are respected.
One scenario Matrix suggests is:
QUOTE
  • (Mat.28): "Almost every home and business has a basic MCPC Rating 1 cyberterminal" (eg Mat.167)
  • (Mat.56): "A decker could purchase a legal cyberterminal and add Evasion and Masking to the machine to turn it into a cyberdeck."

QUOTE ( @ Apr 29 2018, 11:34 AM) *
Stricly speaking the rules don't even disallow to have the Persona Programs running on OMCs (rewritable chips) but actually allowing that in game would just open up a can of worms with no real benefits
All it says is:
QUOTE (Matrix 54)
Unlike standard OMCs, OCCs have been permanently imprinted with information. They cannot be erased and reused. Because of this encoded security, software that is built into the hardware, such as persona programs, are placed on OCCs.
It looks to me like Cooking is only required to burn an OMC into an OCC - and that OMCs are as rewriteable as flash drives ("They are the diskettes of the twenty-first century." - sr3.295). If one of my runners slots an OMC into a pocsec to copy a building's schematic onto it for another runner, I certainly don't require a 3Kg Encoder and a Cook test - it happens just like copying a file onto a flash drive and ejecting it. If a runner wanted to run their Cyberdeck's MPCP from OMCs, I'd grin and let them! I'm sure certain IC would be delighted to "customise" deck firmware mid-run... Now the players know how the "Scorched: psychotropic conditioning" Flaw comes about nyahnyah.gif

Note that although BEMS programs with ratings above 6 exist, they are not available at character generation (sr3.270) and that although Cyberdecks with ratings above 6 exist (sr3.207, mat.167), they are also not available at character generation so the most you can spend on a standard deck is 125,000Y for the Novatech Hyperdeck-6 (yep, that 6 is there for a good reason). The remaining 7/8ths of your 1,000,000Y will have to be spent on something else!
Cochise
QUOTE (Bodak @ Apr 30 2018, 03:40 AM) *
One scenario Matrix suggests is:


Just as any "deckmaster" within the scene could program and cook chips and then sell those to customers.

QUOTE (Bodak @ Apr 30 2018, 03:40 AM) *
All it says is:


So just as I said: Strictly speaking a decker is not precluded from using his persona programs on standard OMCs instead of an OCC.

QUOTE (Bodak @ Apr 30 2018, 03:40 AM) *
It looks to me like Cooking is only required to burn an OMC into an OCC - and that OMCs are as rewriteable as flash drives ("They are the diskettes of the twenty-first century." - sr3.295). If one of my runners slots an OMC into a pocsec to copy a building's schematic onto it for another runner, I certainly don't require a 3Kg Encoder and a Cook test - it happens just like copying a file onto a flash drive and ejecting it. If a runner wanted to run their Cyberdeck's MPCP from OMCs, I'd grin and let them! I'm sure certain IC would be delighted to "customise" deck firmware mid-run... Now the players know how the "Scorched: psychotropic conditioning" Flaw comes about nyahnyah.gif


And again as I said: Can of worms with no actual benefit ... and the slight problem that you're still kinda walking the "house rule" territory since the rules on installing persona program chips don't deal with your "just like copying". Sure, the rule ingredients are all in place but they are not explicitly made for that particular idea.

QUOTE (Bodak @ Apr 30 2018, 03:40 AM) *
Note that although BEMS programs with ratings above 6 exist, they are not available at character generation (sr3.270) and that although Cyberdecks with ratings above 6 exist (sr3.207, mat.167), they are also not available at character generation so the most you can spend on a standard deck is 125,000Y for the Novatech Hyperdeck-6 (yep, that 6 is there for a good reason). The remaining 7/8ths of your 1,000,000Y will have to be spent on something else!


And you're telling me this why?
Bodak
Because the OP asked:
QUOTE (Bertramn @ Apr 27 2018, 12:26 AM) *
On p206 in the Sr3 book, when describing the cyberdeck, it states "If the decker increased his Bod Rating by 2,...".

I found no Action or System Operation that mentions that the Persona Programs can be shifted in this way. Is this just badly written, or am I overlooking something that enables a player to shift these values in or between decking runs?
If MCPC at character generation is capped at 6; if the MCPC of a deck cannot be upgraded; if the Persona Programs' ratings cannot exceed the MCPC, then the OP may well need to buy a new deck to attain the BEMS desired.
Cochise
QUOTE (Bodak @ Apr 30 2018, 07:16 AM) *
Because the OP asked:


Let's just say that I would have expected such a comment directed at the OP directly instead of seeing it as a sub-comment to something that you more or less directly addressed towards me.

QUOTE (Bodak @ Apr 30 2018, 07:16 AM) *
If MCPC at character generation is capped at 6; if the MCPC of a deck cannot be upgraded; if the Persona Programs' ratings cannot exceed the MCPC, then the OP may well need to buy a new deck to attain the BEMS desired.


I have this feeling that the OP didn't have a problem with any of those "if"s but rather simply a problem with what he wrote and what you quoted: He wondered if that particular part of the core rule text referred to an otherwise unmentioned way of increasing / decreasing Persona Program rarings on the fly or if he had missed such a rule. Whether or not MPCP rating and the associated Persona Program ratings are capped at character creation is of no concern for that question. And since Persona Program ratings simply cannot exceed MPCP ratings there also no actual connection between the question and your comment because the MPCP8/6/6/6/6 vs. MPCP8/8/5/6/5 example is just more straight forward than a MPCP6/4/3/4/3 vs. MPCP6/6/2/4/2 example.

For the record: As much as I'm in favor of using the general "max Rating of 6" rule I generally apply it to the Persona Programs themselves and not the MPCP rating of the whole deck unless talking a "low power group". That's simply because the sample character of "combat decker" already has a CMT Avatar at MPCP7 and Renraku Kraftwerk 8 (which was used for the examples) doesn't raise any power level concers for me.
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