OK, I know this is beating a dead horse, but here's another go at it.

With Kill Code out, we have the option of a viable, but "ghetto" Cyberdeck.

First thing you have to decide, what way would you like to hack. Do you like to go in with guns blazing or do you like being a 'Trix Ninja?
For either methodology, you'll need a Rating 7 Commlink with a Hot SIM module and a Rating 3 Datajack Plus.
For the Guns Blazing method, you'll modify the commlink with a Sleaze Attribute 2 (so you can hack on the sly... just poorly) and a Rating 6 Attack Dongle..
For the 'Trix Ninja ethod, just reverse the above (Stealth Dongle & Adding Attack to the 'Link)
This gives you a "Deck" with a Device Rating 7, Firewall 7, Data Processing 7 and either Attack 6 & Sleaze 2 or Sleaze 6 & Attack 2.

The Datajack Plus gives you the ability to run 3 Common or Hacking Programs. One of the Program Slots can be Virtual Machine (Common Program), so this gives the Ghetto Deck 4 programs it can run.

Now the cost of the Ghetto Deck: 10,500 for the Cyberware and 119,500 for the 'Link for a grand total of 129,750
The downside is that your Matrix Attributes are locked and while your Device is Rating 7, you have 2 permanent boxes of Damage from the get go. You also only have 4 programs to run (and will take an extra box of Damage each time you get nailed).
The upside of this is you have a commlink that can do reasonably well in hack AND will not gain the attention of security. Everything other than the SIM module is legal. If you keep the Dongle powered down (and the RFID tag in it removed) then your commlink should pass inspection with no problem.

given the cost, i'm going to have to argue that this is only *comparatively* cheap, and i hesitate to describe it as something a poor man might afford.

but sure, cheaper (for what you get) than has previously been available at least.

The biggest advantage of this "Deck" as compared to the others is this can be built piecemeal. You can steal the individual components a LOT easier than stealing a cyberdeck.
Also if you don't absolutely need the highest rating Attack/Sleaze commlink dongle then you can shave 33,000 by just getting a Rating 5 instead of a rating 6.

A comparatively priced Deck (The Microtrónica Azteca 200) is 13,500 more expensive, and it is also only a Rating 2 device. Granted the flexibility is better, but The Firewall and Data Processing is better than you could ever have on the Azteca 200.

well, yeah. it's nice and all. it just isn't *actually* cheap, and is in fact quite expensive. that doesn't mean it isn't comparatively a pretty good deal when you look at what a similar amount of money could buy you elsewhere in terms of hacking-capable hardware, but if you just walk up to some random shadowrunner and tell them you've got a cheap way to get into decking and then present them with a 130k nuyen (or even ~100k nuyen) bill, i think you're going to find that your definition of cheap is not quite the same as their definition of cheap

Depends on how much muscle the Berk offering the 100K+ deck has if they plan to walk with said deck they are flashing about.

Oh, I understand this, but the price I quoted was for the "best" of the Ghetto decks. If you go with cheaper commlink (Transys Avalon) and a Rating 4 Dongle, then you cut the price to an "Affordable" 56,000 . For this price you're dropping the Datajack Plus, but you still have the Program Carrier which gives you a program slot for the Ghetto Deck. Also remember you can always "upgrade" the Attack or Stealth Attribute by stealing a better Commlink Dongle.


Sure your device rating drops to 6 and you "only" have a 6 for Firewall & Data Processing and the Attack or Sleaze attribute is only a 4, but for the price you've got a deck that beats a Microdeck Sumit bloody, and it is almost entirely legal.

yeah, still not sold on actual cheapness as compared to relative cheapness, even for the downgraded version.

to put it another way... you could buy several cars with that amount of money. you could live modestly off of that much money for a little over 4 years without doing any work at all, or you could live like an extremely rich person for 5 months.

you are over halfway to being able to afford a permanent low lifestyle with 56k nuyen in the bank. and yeah, low lifestyle isn't wonderful, but still, you're talking about half as much money as it takes to never need to work again for the rest of your life. that is not "cheap"

And yet we're expected to believe that Deckers will buy a MUCH more expensive deck for what reason?

For the gaaaaaaaaammmme!!!!!! No there really is no reason for the decks to be so expensive other than previous edition nostalgia. It's just wonderful how there has been so much kick back about the cost of decks that now they are trying to shoe horn in cheaper ones but all it really does is show how ridiculously over priced they were in the first place. Poor design choice there.

i didn't say nobody will buy it. i said it isn't cheap. there's a difference.

as to why a decker would buy one of those expensive decks (or choose not to sell it for a small fortune) instead of retiring, that's not my problem. ask the person who's making the decker. it really should be one of the questions they've taken some time to consider. just as it should be for other characters that have a bunch of expensive equipment (depending on character, it could be as simple as "it's part of my body now" for high-end 'ware, including deckers with implanted decks). they should all have an answer in mind to the question of "how did your character get all this expensive equipment?", as that will most likely shape the way the character is played. a person who took out a huge loan from the mafia might be in constant fear of being asked for "favours", while an AWOL or MIA soldier is going to have some concerns about runs where the military is likely to look too closely at them.

The DJ-Plus is an absolute must-have. every cybered character needs this, if only to have a fighting chance to not be immediately spotted by security spiders.

Here's my take on a decent discount hacker deck.

For Firewall, you can game the system by slaving your minimum-firewall deck to a decent commlink (Cybernaut or Avalon) and using the master's firewall for al firewall checks. At least so far I haven't found why I can't do this. So you can dump your deck'S firewall for a much cheaper alternative unless I missed something. Add in a program carrier module and an Encrypt program, and you get an all-7 deck. I'd go for a Fuchi Ex because why buy a Fuchi N, ever.

Please keep in mind I designed this for a Matrix ninja. For a Brute Forcer, things will be more expensive.

The Deck


The Comlink

The Datajack Plus


With this Setup, for a meager 177680, you get a (program-buffed) 5/13/6/1[8] deck, with an able Agent program to take care of any marks received so you don't have to waste actions on that, still get the full armor package (FWIW), enough nosie reduction that you can run s&m at full throttle and not be penalized, and some neat stuff that'll help you get rid of marks faster. Suck on this, Fairlight.


Prices in SR5 are bollocks, nobody here needs convincing of that I hope.

The SR5 equipment rules and prices could be called a health hazard as I nearly laughed myself to death flipping through them. Just one of the many reasons I've stuck with SR4.

I can only hope for a return to sanity with SR6. Maybe they've learned a few lessons since SR5.

I'm trying to verify if you're correct about this or not. Knowing Catalyst, your way is most likely incorrect.



No arguments there. In fact, your example shows the UTTER stupidity of the pricing. An 8,000 commlink has Data Processing and Firewall of 7. The Data Processing attribute alone on the rig you priced costs 12,500 ... and that is only rating 5!

Firewall 7 of a Fuchi N/EX deck actually is 171000 alone. Firewall and Attack are [rating]³*500, while Sleaze and DP are only [rating]²*500. Yes, that pricing is incredibly inane. However, within that inanity, the new decks scale fairly well. I have to hand that to them at least. Base price for the rig is [rating]*5000 for the N (only one program slot, ever) and [rating]*10000 for the EX ([rating]+2 program slots). I have absolutely no idea why anyone should, ever, buy an N, unless they're a masochist who also really hates programs.


I'd appreciate anything you find. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, bt I just couldn't find anything that would disallow this abuse.

I just was looking at the Shadowruntabletop.com forums and the FAQ and once you start using the deck, you use all of its attributes. Meaning you lose the benefit of commlink's firewall.

Pity, so this is only good for Commlinks then. If only they'd regulate Magic half as thoroughly as they want to ban any exploit with mundanes.

If you are looking for a cheap-ish alternative at character generation, I'd go with the Little Hornet from Data Trails, along with Perfect Time and Overclocker (I think the name is overclocker -- the quality that lets you add 1 to one of your matrix attributes). It comes in at 80-something grand, and the qualities let you have firewall 6 dataprocessing 5, except during your action when you move the 6 to your sleaze or attack. The rating two was an issue (only two programs!), but if you allow the datajack-plus in your game, that takes care of that issue.

If you have a character moving into hacking more in play, then what was suggested up top is good, but given that your pool is not apt to be maxed out initially you can probably reasonably start with a rating 4 dongle (especially if you can swing the ten karma to pick up overclocker in play). The difference between a rating 4 and rating 6 dongle? 60k nY! Dropping the dongle price to 48k makes the whole thing something that is more easily in reach (especially if you already have a high rating commlink, and as said the DJ+ is a good investment for any character with cyber in games that will allow it)

Honestly how can you NOT allow Datajack Plus? It's not a home brew rule. It's an official supplement from Catalyst Games.


Honestly, if Catalyst wants deckers to be a part of the game, then they should have made it EASIER to be a hacker than harder.

I guess because "it has utility" equals "it is OP" for mundanes, at least that's the obvious design premise behind wireless "boni" where the supposed bonus is actual functionality instead of simulated functionality like limit increase.

I've seen quite a few people comment (elsewhere) about parts of Forbidden Arcana that they are not bringing into their games for one reason or another.

Personally, I run a few house rules (such as how counterspelling works), and have a few things I've said "not part of the world in my game" because to me they didn't align well with everything else (like the shapechange spell) and when new books come out I always say things may be available but we need to talk before anything dramatically new gets added in, to look at how well it respects previous player decisions. The datajack plus might fall into the latter two categories for me (I haven't had to decide yet).

When you consider:
- even the most high end links can't run decking programs
- the number of programs that a deck can run is one of their major limitations,
- the incremental cost for each rating increase on a deck is very high

To me it seems that:
1) it is odd that such a comparatively cheap and non-intrusive piece of 'ware can run programs. If they can do it there, why can't I get a 'link that will run them? This just is not consistent with the rest of the world as defined in the available equipment.
2) it changes the calculations enough that a character built in pre-kill-code times may feel penalized, if for example they had gone to a higher priority on resources in part to get the higher rating deck, when the options now would have let them build their starting decker more cheaply and put that priority point into something else. Or in the case of one character at my table, the character doesn't use any ware (spider totem decker-mage, using trodes), so the penalty for mode of operation compared to someone using the latest 'ware would suddenly be much more significant.

On the counter side, programs are mostly somewhat incremental in the power impact on a decker, so I don't know that making more be available has a big enough impact for me to really get fussed about.

They can run one, with a program carrier module.


Then you'll definitly want to have a look at the Fuchi NT decks.


Those prices make absolutly zero sense in any context.


Well, it is, for once, something that doesn't penalize mundanes. Also, if you use priority, that masochism's wholly on you. Priority is the worst generation system in all editions and this one.


Actually, it does. It finally makes using programs worth the hassle to try and run several to make use of synergies (cloak and dagger, finally more than self-mutilation!). It even allows non-deckers to use their links with a stealth dongle (or use a souped-up version of that one link that has a stealth rating) so non-deckers can finally actually sneak into a building without immediately being noticed with two matrix perception tests. It is a powerful piece of 'ware and finally SOMETHING good that mundanes can have and mages can't (easily). Whetehr that is a plus or not is up to your table to decide.

...usually not into bringing an old thread back to life however this is one of the best discussions on the Net that I have read concerning the custom decks in KC.

OK a veteran of 3D here who ran several decker characters back then. One thing I loved in the Matrix expansion book was the deck customisation system. Yeah a bit on the crunchy side (I actually set up an spreadsheet in Excel to handle that part which made it more workable) and sort of held to the old decker axiom of "never trust someone else's tech".

Wasn't fond of deckers being demoted to glorified "phone phreaks" ion 4E (among other issues I had with that edition) and after a couple months abandoned that and went back to 3E.

OK as to upgrading decks in 5E it reminds me of the "Apple philosophy": you want to upgrade what you have, you have to buy a new machine (part of why I don't work on a Mac). So you to upgrade a deck's rating you have to dump a pile of ¥ into buying a brand new deck (considering the usual price for reselling your old one is ⅓ of what you paid for it) instead of purchasing the parts and spending the time to do it yourself or have your deckmeister make the modification. So here comes Kill Code with the option of "custom decks", but even that is nerfed. For one the attributes are fixed. Second the lower grade version only lets you run only one programme at a time while with the higher grade version one you are stuck with a fairly pitiful firewall (due to the separate availability rating) a script kiddie could get through (again because you cannot swap attributes like you can on an off the shelf model).

So that said, looking back at the N-series, yeah, it will only support a single programme by itself. However there is a bit of a hack that can help (more below).

For one, take the Deck Builder quality (2 Karma) add a total of three modules (at least two of which are programme carriers, get a rating 3 datajack+ and run the Virtual Machine native on the deck and you'll get a total of 7 programmes (8 if all three modules are programme carriers) that can be operating simultaneously, 2 of which can be swapped (the ones allowed by the virtual Machine). The trick here is to have you most heavily utilised and important programmes on the carriers and Datajack+. This way you can also get a decent firewall should things go south. Again this is more for a stealth Decker (the third module would have the Stealth Programme which would add to the deck's Sleaze rating

So building the device 7 deck above with the N Series you could have:

Attack: 4
Sleaze: 7 (8*)
Data Processing: 7 (why not?)
Firewall: 6 (or 7 if you can afford it).

* Stealth Programme.

Deck: 226,700¥ (OK not dirt cheap but consider what you are getting for a little more than the cost of a stock Renraku Tsurgi, which is rating 3 and 6 as the highest attribute and 3 as the lowest)
Datajack+ 3: 10,500¥
Total: 237,200¥

Like my decker, take the Overclocker quality which allows you to boost one deck attribute by +1. As the deck attributes and 5 (or 6) programmes are fixed, Quick Config is of little use take Perfect Time and you get two free actions. to cover the programme swaps.

As a rating 7 device the deck will have -7 noise reduction. Add -1 for your datajack + another -2 for signal scrub (on the Datakjack or second programme carrier) and you have -10 noise reduction to cover using that Smoke & Mirrors programme and whatever.