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SleepIncarnate
Whether you look through the 4E books of Arsenal and Attitude, the 5E book Run & Gun, or any other related book that discusses fashion and armored clothing, it's clear that such fashions are designed for adults. But what do the teenage runners (or even just those with childlike or adolescent bodies due to being gnomes or changelings with the neoteny quality) wear when they want protective clothing? A 13 year old elf hacker is unlikely to find a Zoe Moonlight dress tailored to her body, just as the 12 year old human street sam might find it hard to get something appropriate to wear during a meet with a corporate Johnson. Does anyone know of any examples out there of the kinds of fashions such characters might wear that would work for them? The closest I can think of are a few of the -punk (steampunk, post-apocayptic, etc.) type fashions present in the Attitude fashion section. How does a gnome face work when she's basically the size of a human toddler, and looks to be about as old?
bannockburn
Easy. The same, just with 10% surcharge. Everything else is an environmental modifier.
SleepIncarnate
How about if they're trying to play up being a kid? Take the example of the teen decker. Maybe she's actually a 30 year old changeling who wants to put people off their guard for social engineering purposes.

Most of the fashion stuff we have details about is the more formal, high end stuff. Everything else just gets a single page at the back of Attitude with barely any info for everything from casual to business to formal to urban, basically just a brand name and a price. None of that is armored though.
Medicineman
QUOTE
Easy. The same, just with 10% surcharge. Everything else is an environmental modifier.

That !
I'm dancing with Bannockburn here smile.gif

QUOTE
How about if they're trying to play up being a kid?

Isn't that the "Job" of the PCs , Roleplaying Part in RPG ? wink.gif

QUOTE
None of that is armored though.

What about Armored Clothing ? (500 IIRC) just add that 500 to the Price of unarmored clothing and You're good to go ( is that the right expression ? )

with an armored Dance
Medicinenman

SleepIncarnate
QUOTE (Medicineman @ Aug 20 2019, 10:23 AM) *
Isn't that the "Job" of the PCs , Roleplaying Part in RPG ? wink.gif


As they say, the clothes make the meta. A face adept who is dressed in a nice Vashon or Zoe number will get a different reaction to one dressed in something from Common Denominator. And while wearing the former is preferable in some instances, the lattter may be more desirable in other settings. So if a player wants to get an idea for what fashions would best make his/her character fit that theme, while also getting it armored (if possible), that's the kind of thing I'm looking for. Like I said, stuff like urbanwear, casual, etc., receive FAR less mention in the books than the higher quality, more formal/business class stuff. I was wondering if anyone here knew of some book somewhere I've missed that discusses the more street level wear.
Sengir
QUOTE (SleepIncarnate @ Aug 20 2019, 04:07 PM) *
A 13 year old elf hacker is unlikely to find a Zoe Moonlight dress tailored to her body, just as the 12 year old human street sam might find it hard to get something appropriate to wear during a meet with a corporate Johnson.

I don't see the problem, formal attire exists even for much younger wearers. And of course in the 2070s this clothing will be armored just like the adult versions.
Kren Cooper
I'd agree - look at the famous celeb couples in trash magazines and compare how their kids are dressed to regular folks - they can, and do get their custom designer labels and exclusive gear, made to measure for them. For runners, I'd be inclined to go more to a 30% surcharge or factor in a higher street index for getting hold of things like that - it was their choice to play a "non-normal" body shape, and that's part of the cost.

But I'd also say that someone, somewhere is making anything you want, in any material. Troll kid of a rich and powerful VP of a AA company - sure he can get Rocky an armoured dinner jacket, it's just a case of paying for it.
KCKitsune
QUOTE (Kren Cooper @ Aug 20 2019, 05:27 PM) *
I'd agree - look at the famous celeb couples in trash magazines and compare how their kids are dressed to regular folks - they can, and do get their custom designer labels and exclusive gear, made to measure for them. For runners, I'd be inclined to go more to a 30% surcharge or factor in a higher street index for getting hold of things like that - it was their choice to play a "non-normal" body shape, and that's part of the cost.


30% is WAY too much. Just pay what the trolls and the dwarves pay and you're good to go. Anything more and you're just gunning for the players.
SleepIncarnate
QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Aug 20 2019, 06:13 PM) *
30% is WAY too much. Just pay what the trolls and the dwarves pay and you're good to go. Anything more and you're just gunning for the players.


Dwarves pay 10%, Trolls pay 50% extra. SR4 doesn't list added costs for neoteny, but SR5 gives them the 10% of dwarves.
Stingray
QUOTE (SleepIncarnate @ Aug 21 2019, 04:30 AM) *
Dwarves pay 10%, Trolls pay 50% extra. SR4 doesn't list added costs for neoteny, but SR5 gives them the 10% of dwarves.

...take al ook at BBB 4ae p.310-311 last sentemce.. " there are wide array of mass-produces consumer goods speciially tailored for dwarf
and troll at no extrra cost"..
..less common gear ARE subject to price upgrading..
( and PC are not subject to to that before game..smallest gnome and biggest troll pay same price for same item/cyber/...) ( ..at lest 4ed/4e AD (5ed/ 6 ed are different story)
SleepIncarnate
QUOTE (Stingray @ Aug 22 2019, 04:30 AM) *
...take al ook at BBB 4ae p.310-311 last sentemce.. " there are wide array of mass-produces consumer goods speciially tailored for dwarf
and troll at no extrra cost"..
..less common gear ARE subject to price upgrading..
( and PC are not subject to to that before game..smallest gnome and biggest troll pay same price for same item/cyber/...) ( ..at lest 4ed/4e AD (5ed/ 6 ed are different story)


For gnomes, sure. I think the reason it wasn't listed under neoteny in 4E though is that it could be for a character who capped out at pre-pubescent tween, like physically 11-13, and is also a human, ork, or elf. A neotenous elf or ork changeling who SURGEd at about the age of 12 or so might still be the height of some shorter adult humans, for example, considering bith elves and orks are typically taller than humans. They'd just lack any secondary sexual characteristics that such clothes might be cut to accentuate (breasts and curves for females, broader shoulders and arms for males), though not every adult necessarily fits the typical body type either.
binarywraith
Take it to the modern spec.

Can said character go to the mall and come back with an outfit from the Juniors section at J.C. Penny? Probably. (God I'm feeling my age today)
farothel
And I'm quite sure that you can find a Zo dress for a 12 year old. With those kind of shops, if you pay, anything is possible.
hermit
QUOTE
Does anyone know of any examples out there of the kinds of fashions such characters might wear that would work for them?

Unless it's explicitly sexual in nature (i.e: fetish clothes, including SecondSkins, or lingerie), there's probably a kid version of it for sale in special lines by any reasonable mass-market producer. Other than that, there's dedicated kid fashions too, of course, for the neotenist trying to play up the kid angle. Keep in mind most higher-end fashion houses offer custom-fitted clothes as a default (scan the customer, algorithmically fit a design to their frame, ship the product via drone), which would help procure a gnome-sized tux or Zo Moonsilver if you need one. The 10% meta modifier should cover this.
Jaid
honestly, i wouldn't charge 10% extra for something that is already custom-fitted on someone smaller than usual. there might be some increased cost for larger, but smaller or oddly shaped (within reason; it makes sense if you're a naga or something) makes no sense.
hermit
I guess everyone shortchages dwarfs because they can, and their needs are, as metahuman rights go, usually overlooked, given they're such a small part of the wider metahuman community. Or maybe it's that.
SleepIncarnate
QUOTE (hermit @ Aug 28 2019, 11:09 AM) *
I guess everyone shortchages dwarfs because they can, and their needs are, as metahuman rights go, usually overlooked, given they're such a small part of the wider metahuman community. Or maybe it's that.



"Shortchanged"? "Overlooked"? "Small part"? The Dwarven Defamation League would like to have some words about your sizeist remarks. Preferably out back. Between a lead pipe and your kneecaps.
hermit
Unfortunatly I'm a bit short on time, and meeting dwarfs at eye level is difficult anyway. Besides, doesn't the DDL have bigger problems than such a small fry forum comment?
SleepIncarnate
DWARF RAGE! *watches the podium get kicked off stage as several dwarves grab their guns*
SpellBinder
QUOTE (Jaid @ Aug 28 2019, 02:57 AM) *
honestly, i wouldn't charge 10% extra for something that is already custom-fitted on someone smaller than usual. there might be some increased cost for larger, but smaller or oddly shaped (within reason; it makes sense if you're a naga or something) makes no sense.
Never charged extra for kids or those with neoteny, SR4 or SR5. Look at the real world; are kids clothes 10% more expensive than adult's clothes? Once you consider a greater lack of wear & tear for the younger crowd due to outgrowing said clothes, yeah, it's more expensive, but it's coming from buying new outfits again and again. Heck, there was a similar discussion on this surcharge after Run Faster was released, and someone else had looked up and found modern kevlar for kids priced about the same as for adults (re: not 10% more expensive).
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