Welp, it happened. I had too much 'shine, lost a bet, and here we are: I'm running a shadowrun PbP game.

This thread is to collect players and gauge interest.

Need to know:

Character generation limited by what's in the main book, and the companion, with limited excursions to the Grimoire as appropriate. Whichever chargen method suits you best is fine by me; I expect most will use point buy.

No initiates. Want to initiate? Do it in-game.

Party to contain a maximum of one full mage, and one adept. This isn't magicrun, and I intend to keep limits on how magically-dominated (as opposed to magic-fascinated) the milieu is. I don't care what magical tradition, within common sense (no, you're not a praying mantis adept, get over it).

'ware of any sort will be bog standard level. Want deltaware? Find it in-game.

Play whatever race you want (except as detailed below), but in-milieu racism is a thing that I will enforce, so be prepared. This goes double for uncommon variants, so your Night One/Giant/Satyr party might not do well.

Forbidden races: no ghouls, no 'shifters, no immortal elves, and of course no changelings, because of course not. Similarly, I don't do otaku/technomancers.

To add some flavour, I will allow one special thing for the nonmagical, and one for the magical:

Nonmagical: I allow for cyberzombies. Essence 0 does not mean death, it means that you're a vestigial meatbag piloting a robobody. This has all the implications you might imagine, and then some. It's ... probably not a thing that you want to be, but if that's your bag? Go for it.

Magical: Magicians can, without expending karma, create a single-use item, usable by anyone with some essence left (sorry, cyber-zombies) for any spell for which they have the formula whether or not they've spent the karma to inscribe it on their own souls. This means that, in theory, a team's medic could have a healing spell on hand despite being about as magical as a burrito fart. It also means that a magician could in principle cast a spell for which they haven't spent karma. The catch is that creating such a thing:

* costs 100 NY * force * force in ingredients
* takes drain as if the caster had cast it
* takes force * hours to create
* must be done in a lodge
* nonmagical characters must be instructed in its use
* magicians can use them, but only after analysis unless they're of the same tradition as the original creator
* they are visible on the astral
* generally this only applies to sorcery
* summoning and banishing is on a per-spirit basis, hence generally not worth it

Game concept:

You will start as a corporate employee. Not one of the majors. This has the various social implications that you should imagine, so if your plan was to create an unemployable kleptomaniac with constant anal leakage, you might have to do some very fast talking to explain why. (Or save yourself the time and effort and come up with someone who looks plausible in sarariman suit for long enough to get hired.)

This will not be pure Redneck Run, but don't be surprised if the natural world, and primary industries intrude in various ways.

The employment in question will be in a satellite office that will need a few staff, from some clerical (good for the decker and gumshoe types), some technical (ditto riggers), and some office security (good for the more mercenary and magical types).

Preview of coming attractions:

The opening/get-to-know-you run will be how you leave the corporate world and get all shadowy. Whether you decide to go Pink Mohawk until the majors hunt you down like dogs, or Mirrorshade it for the long game afterwards, is up to you.

Style:

Big, loud noises get big, loud responses. Going loud in downtown Seattle is a good way to get wasted, and fast. What happens under the eye of cameras should be assumed to be seen, and analysed, automatically. The saving grace is that just because it got captured on camera doesn't mean that anybody gave a damn, and most of the world suffers from a tragic camera deficit. This means that knowing the security profile of an area is vital. The panopticon does not exist, and definitely not in depressed or rural areas.

Recommendations for group makeup:

One full magician. As above, shamanic/hermetic doesn't matter much, but employability is a concern so while a shaman of Mouse might be fine, a shaman of Rat would be questionable.

(At least) One decker. You may have heard that there are a lot of computers around. Deckers can help.

(At least) One rigger. Everything from building installations to drones to forklifts are easier to handle this way, if you have the rig.

(At least) One intel operative. This could easily be a pretty face being one half receptionist, one half HR representative in a branch office, with a knack for dealing with people and digging up their secrets. Being able to jimmy cabinet locks without leaving evidence is just a bonus.

(At least) One muscle. Sure, riggers can provide awesome tools, but sometimes the right tool for the job is a maladjusted vandal with a short temper and size 15 boots just right for kicking a door in.

I'm interested!

Here are the constraints on me:

1) I haven't played 3rd edition since 4th came out. I have the BBB and Companion in PDF format on my computer, and I -hope- I still have hard copy of these and other books somewhere. So I would be rusty at the beginning.

2) I currently play two PbP PCs, a 'tank' who drives well, and an adept face. From the very beginning I have avoided playing a decker, in no small part because after thirteen years as a programmer I have had enough. I wanna be other things in my fantasies. So that leaves magic most likely, either magician or adept. Which is fine, as these are the roles I am most comfortable with (especially adepts).

I've always maintained that 'magic run' is more an artifact of GMs not playing the world as it should be for the Awakened. This has gotten me into trouble with people who think, "Who are you to tell me I don't know how to run a Shadowrun game?" I am glad to see in your intro, Koekepan, that you won't let it happen.

Given the above, if it's OK with you I would like to start building a magician. Hey, being a corporate mage (until the drek hits the fan) could be fun.

If I hear enough screamings about 3rd Edition, I guess we could investigate 4th. I'm familiar with it, and I have the books, but I just happen to dig 3rd Ed. So, consider that option open.



Sure. First come first serve, I reckon, and I'm sure you could do the job. Why not throw together a concept and we'll see where we land?



Magicrun doesn't have to happen if you consider the rarity and the uses of magicians. I don't want to show too much of my hand, but here are some short takes:


Magicians are mostly employed in either academia, high end corporate gigs or the magical support field (talismongering and so on). This is a comfortable, well-supported, relatively low-risk environment, so most people with strong employment options will pick one of the above. An additional cadre are in various nation-level forms of employment such as forensics, military security and so on, but the same thing applies: it's a plum job, so they have little reason to go off on their own, and they're rare enough that the forces that employ them won't be throwing them willy-nilly at every silly mission that crops up.

By adding the bit where magicians can actually create one-time uses for other people to use, it makes even more sense to put a corporate mage in a magical lab where they crank out single-use items for others to use in various exotic means, and keep them far the hell away from anything too risky. They're too big and valuable an investment. If a wagemage can crank out 4 Force 2 shots in a working day, for NY1600, that enables a factory to crank out 40 items worth NY50000 each every day, that wagemage is going to get a fat paypacket, all the footrubs the corporate brothel can dish out, and no incentive to go anywhere or do anything except climb the corporate wagemage ladder until they're cranking out 1 Force 6 shot a day, for NY3600, that enables a factory to crank out 600 items worth NY500000 each daily.

So magicians on the street? Are slumming, crazy, or insanely specialised. And they're a tiny minority, of which you happen to be one.

Hey, it's like a marriage. If the GM is happy, you are happy.

I await your cyclops raccoon shaman with bated breath.

Any hints about the corp we work for? I'm trying to figure out spells, and maybe if I knew what my position is in the company, I could work them out more easily. I could go for the generic mix that is common, but if my guy is a counter-espionage, interrogation dude, that colours the spells I would choose.

I assume the Companion suggestion of no more than 60 BP for Attributes applies?

Is it allowed to start with a bonded focus?

EDIT: Wow. Already I'm talking about "my" spells. No problem suspending disbelief, here. Nope.

Your role would be in R&D support, cranking out single-use healing spell and growth promoting items for the use of technicians. However, because of my remarks above, that shouldn't be taken as a mandate that you take healing spells. The corporation would supply any formulae that you require for cranking out items. What would make more sense is some thought given to supporting skills such as arcana, alchemy, that sort of thing. Within those limits you can have a pretty wide range of capabilities.

The corp itself is in the business of producing biological substitutes for petrochemicals for the bulk manufacturing field, but your role in R&D has more to do with supporting bioreactors for research engineers than anything near the front lines of factory work. As I said, it's a satellite office.



Yes, but more as a suggestion than a hard law. Violating it would make me look hard at the sheet, figuring out if you're a rabid min-maxer, or true to a concept.



I'll allow it provisionally, with a caveat that you probably don't want something so valuable that you would be a target just for having it. But isn't that true for all runners?

So, I'm trying to wrap my head around how a magician, who is basically a lab tech, will escape the corporate world fully equipped with Fireball and Increase Reflexes spells. I am, at heart, that min-max guy who wants his PC to be the fastest in the room. But I don't see it for this magician ... unless, what? ... he is a Karl Kombat Mage afficionado and pretends/prepares?

Hmmm. I don't buy it. And I wonder how the corp will react to Mini-Karl the lab tech accessing their library to study combat spells.

But, if I don't buy it, the first combat round will be his last.

Hmmmm.

I cogitate further.

Buuuut ... what if his studies preceded his current employment, which he took under heavy parental/societal pressure?

And now he chafes at the boredom and predictability and banality and soul-destroying corporate indoctrination, and the utter, unbearable weight of the prospect of decades of cranking out meaningless little trinkets for fools with half his intelligence and a tenth of his Will to Power!

What then?

He doesn't have to start out as a walking, talking artillery piece, but even so:

There are lots of good reasons for a biotech lab to have some capability to lay various forms of smack down. Nasty critter getting loose in the equipment room? How about a little stunbolting? Euthanasia time, how about manabolting? Quick sterilisation of a used tank, how about a fireball, or for that matter how about some of the acid-related spells?

Think different!

And of course, lots of reason for healing abilities.

Thanks for being more out of the box than I! That's very helpful.

Out of the box?

That's where I live, chummer!

Of course, you could also make a very good research magician, expert at dealing with spirits, simply cranking out the single-use items as a way of making the wage machine crank out nuyen for your lifestyle. And those can be great ways of affecting combat.

Yeah, I have been considering spirits as the way out of the conundrum.

I have to look more closely at the mechanism for generating items you describe. I didn't think my guy could use it to generate income for himself -while- employed by the corp.

Just so I am sure I understand SR3 mechanics, an Increase Reflexes +3 spell could be cast at Force 1 and still increase reflexes by 3D6 -- assuming the caster survives the Drain. Correct?

It's not really good for an independent income, because of the costs involved. For an individual, this is not a cheap nor easy way of making serious cash. Talismongers will of course do it, if they are magicians, or sponsor or hire magicians to do it on an on-demand basis, but it's usually just corps or the military who will spend the time and money to have a magician crank out a bunch of on-demand improved invisibility whatsits for their special forces, or something.

Or in your case, growth boosters for the biolab techs.

It's a living. A tiring, dull living. But the pay's good and the perks are cool.

Yes, Increase Reflexes +3 cast with Force 1 still works - but it's easier to dispel than one cast with Force 2. Or 6, for that matter.

Along the lines of the " I would have thought ..." thread I started in the Shadowrun subgroup, I would have thought with all the posters wingeing about Shadowrun going to pot after SR3, there would be people lined up to join this game. Where are they all?

Hey! I found my SR3 source material! Yay! It includes #763 of the limited edition BBB, complete with cartoons and signatures by Hooper and Nelson inside the front cover. It was a present from my ex-wife who stood in line for a long time to get one. Ah ... there are some fond memories.

Maybe they got scared at the idea that I might shut them out of the magicrun? I don't know. Maybe it's too old and crusty and they want SR4?



Sweet. Do you also have the old Grimoire? Any other goodies? A memorabilia egg from the Universal Brotherhood? A still-wrapped, unsigned packet from Chicago?

The only Grimoire I can lay my hands on right now is in Magic in the Shadows. I seem to be missing some materials, like my standard BBB for third edition (which, admittedly, was pretty beaten up). I thought I had a grimoire of some sort. I have various books ans supplements from 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th editions, plus the core book for 6th. Hey, I wanted to see what it was like.

No big deal. If there's something you need, I should be able to dig it up for you, but mostly there are things like additional spell lists, enchanting, ritual magic, druids and initiation.

I think it was officially a 2nd Ed book, but was more or less carried along for 3rd Ed.

EDIT #1: 6 June 2020 This is being radically redone. Wait for update.

EDIT #2: 6 June 2020 Done.

EDIT #3: 12 June 2020

EDIT #4: 19 Dec 2021 - after some game play - gear, money, karma earned and spent

So, here's preliminary character data, to be fleshed out, of course:

Connor Tupolev: Bright, young magician, stuck in a boring, repetitive job in a mid-level corporation. A mental, not so much physical, athlete, he revels in the challenges posed by philosophers old and new, and by the mysteries of the Astral world beyond our own. Everybody likes him, despite his sometimes acerbic tongue, but he likes few people, most of whom he feels are living way below their potential. "If ever there was an example of Nietzche's 'Superman'," thinks Connor, "it is I."

Background



20 Questions



Stats

Not bad so far.

A little puzzled why he'd have the bonded sustaining job on increased reflexes of all things - the spell list on the other hand makes lots of sense to me, and I have no problem with the MitS import spell.

Any particular thought behind the Owl shamanic approach? And obviously there's some work to be done on the TBD bits.

Well, to some degree I'm projecting onto Connor my own preference to be the first and most frequent to shoot in a gunfight. And Connor's physical stats are not too strong, so I can be safe in saying he doesn't want to be in a war of attrition. Most everything else he does does not need to be sustained while he does another task.

And, what the Hell, if biological meta-shit hits the fan, the faster one reacts the better.

I thought that Connor might go for sustaining a spell that increases a mental Attribute (another three points in Willpower and all his pools go up one), but stuck with vanilla.

Owl's limitation favours night. +2 dice to all spells and conjuring at night. When do runs mostly happen? So both offensively and defensively Connor is primed for prime time. And no environment restrictions, so the lodge can be set up anywhere. Now, Is Connor a 'night owl' because he just is, and therefore Owl took a liking to him, or is he a night owl because Owl took a liking to him long ago, and the totem effect slowly seeped into Connor? I'm not telling.

Working on TBD stuff.

OK, the one other part that struck me as a little weird was giving this guy humungous charisma, which makes sense in a min-maxy way but isn't really the way I read this character.

I'm fine with Owl as a totem, based on a night-owly kind of character.

I see your point about Charisma, and if it strongly worries you, I can adjust. I think it ties into his view of himself as one who will lead the rest of us into a bright future. He believes in himself completely, and has the intellectual chops to live up to that belief. Such people have an aura that attracts people to the cause.

Rereading the description of Charisma in the BBB, I can see much of it does fit Connor. That perusal does point out to me that I made a glaring error in the Skills department. He has -no- Perception! I will fix that for sure, possibly finding some points for it in Charisma.

EDIT: Oh. That's because there is no separate Perception Skill. Wrong edition. Oh.

I won't scream too hard about the charisma, but I'll expect you to play him as the budding cult leader, then.

That's like, "OK, little boy, but I expect you to eat ALL the candy."

Oh! Oh! And thanks for the corp background. Connor has a -work related- reason to know German! Yet another reason for him to have been hired.

No problem. I'll probably add a few more posts, especially as more people join with more questions.

Hmmm ... that link in the OOC post to your discussion of corp security is interesting, and has me thinking that I haven't thought of Connor enough as a security officer, rather than as a shadowrunner. I will take a look at his spell list and consider it in the light of the six Ds. I don't know, maybe a Barrier spell for exaample.

His security work may very well have been a marginal side gig, compared to his work for the research lab. He might have just spent a couple of days making prepared formulae for the security guys, rather than dedicating serious thought to it.

Unless of course it greatly appealed to him.

Fortunately, I said "preliminary", because I suspect that if Connor thinks of himself as a leader, he should have some people skills. Though, it will be fun to see him try to lead and fail. So, working on the stats still.

Also fortunately, there is time to refine the PC, as Connor is the only one so far. Unless, evil GM, you plan to start him off by himself.

I'm not evil. I'm just drawn this way.

And Connor as the sole survivor of the biopocalypse? Might make for an interesting game start until someone else decides that they need in on the action.

That actually sounds fun! I also rattled some chains over in my "I thought ..." thread in the Shadowrun subforum. All those people complaining about anything past 3E started migrating there, explaining why no one is on DS anymore.

Maybe someone would like a 3rd Ed decker again. Quite a few said that 4th Ed is when the 'trix went off the rails.

Welp, I'm not closing any doors, but so far it feels like it's just you and your totem, Connor.

With that in mind, I'm going to suggest that you reshape things to make him a bit more jack-of-all-tradesish. At least, find some way to get him more effective with a computer in front of him, and select spells with a view to expanding his capabilities.

Just a thought; if and how you follow it up is up to you.

OK. I'll see what I can do. I have, in the past, played characters who were not originally suited for the shadows.

In particular there was Professor, an archaeologist adept who entered the shadows to find the criminal who both masterminded the destruction of his academic career and had him framed for murder. (As an aside, that criminal mastermind became The Blindman, lent to the RPGA as the archenemy of Claudia and the PCs of Virtual Seattle in the last season of that RPGA Shadowrun series of modules. I was part of the module writing team then.) The professor played in a couple of short-lived PbP campaigns here on DS. A lot of his adept powers were designed to be functional for a researcher and scientist.

Hmmm. A researcher adept? Hmmm. I think a number of his powers in later incarnations were from SR4E's Street Magic, enhancing mental abilities. Oh well. Just for fun I'll take a look at Magic in the Shadows. It'll keep me occupied.

I also played Stogie (and his border collie Jake), a shepherd (adept again) dispossessed of his flock and property by one of those nasty old corporations. He was in the shadows basically to give payback. They survived a rough outdoor mission to find the perpetrators of death and destruction in the mountains around ... Mount Rainier(?), which in the campaign was a ley-line-like source of great mana and protected by three magical 'sisters'.

Then there was Bongo Slade, a young drummer ( you guessed it ... adept) who was a footloose kid looking to find the Heartbeat of Gaea so he could drum it.

There are a few ways of tackling it that I could see. They would make him less min-maxy, of course, but that's not a showstopper. You'd just have to play smarter, rather than harder. Spirits might become his backup for combat, but there's a lot to be said for giving him a predator and a knife as well.

His major blind point would then be intel and infiltration, but I can see a few ways to address that as well.

Speaking of the RPGA and SR3, do you remember one of their modules I wrote for them... damn I can't remember the name. It had the PCs travel north from Seattle to Tsimshian to investigate some disappearances from a mining company there. The RPGA was facing a problem because there were many players whose PCs had over the years built a karma pool in the 40s or more. They were having trouble developing runs that were challenging for these monster PCs but not beyond less experienced ones. With that kind of Karma pool and spent Karma, players were able to just blast through most things, basically guaranteeing success whenever they wanted by re-rolling till they got it.

I gave the RPGA what they needed. Teams of brand new players were able to successfully complete the run (I GMed two of those), but at least two teams of 6 of those monster PCs who thought they could solve all things with firepower suffered TPKs. (I GMed one of those. Those puppies were NOT happy.) In my defense, it was made clear in the story that frontal assault would not work. The tough guys just didn't believe the warnings.

Yeah, I see that path.

Alright, how about a major re-write. I'm thinking of a Shamanist, whose Totem is Sun (from MitS). This gives him three categories of spells, and more spell points. 180 degrees away from Owl, I know, but Owl is a no go for the Shamanist. I would pull back a bit on Mental Attributes to have more points in Physical Attributes and Skills, including Charisma based skills (Sun! Of course!)

So, Connor would have combat, detection and health spells, be able to negotiate and shoot. Working on Matrix functionality. Come on! Mr. Renaissance Man? A one man shadowrun?

And there would be a bit of difficulty for him after dark, and he would have trouble with a corp that might turn out to be not what it seems. Both of which give the GM some fun!

Before I spend a lot of time on this, does this seem worth exploring to you?

Maybe. If I may offer a hint, I'd suggest that one full magician would be worth having. A shamanist as an additional character, taking up the Adept slot in what I'd permit, would be an acceptable addition if someone else comes in, but you are likely to run into walls otherwise.

Not magicrun doesn't mean that magic isn't key to some aspects.

I would even have suggested something like a shaman of, say, Spider, with some points in computer-related skills just so that you can actually deal with other fields. Given the ability to create one-time items, you might even get away with some spells where you own the formulae, but don't have them at your metaphorical fingertips.

Kind of like smoke grenades you have to build yourself before the mission, ninja.

I cogitate further.

I hasten to add that if you can find one other participant, this greatly relieves the burden of flexibility, and gives rein to your wild imagination.

Find just one person who hasn't burned their 3rd Ed books in an ecstasy of grief - or twist my arm and we can do 4A instead.

Thanks for the offer of 4th Edition, but I think being a lone PC in any edition requires a lot of flexibility.

I revisited your notes about one-off items today, and I will avail myself of those to help. I have some spells in mind that you might think ... interesting. I'm trying to (in metagame) foresee problems a lone PC, probably on the run, will have to face.

The real difficulty for me right now is Matrix work. I really don't see Connor being any good at that (ie. hard to find points for the skills), but I am soldiering on. It's a challenge I accept readily!

Now, there is the option of a Contact who is a decker. That might work, especially if I can pay him/her with one or two one-off items.

Find another player? It's like pulling teeth!

I meant if it will help you find a desperate confederate to face the biopocalypse with a knife between your teeth. Otherwise, the demons of the Third Dimension .... I mean, third edition will ride you mercilessly!



I don't know what angles you're considering, but one that might help you is on page 207; Cyberterminals. They can save you a bundle, and while they aren't fast and sexy, they're capable of getting grunt work done without risking your tender cortex to a black hammer attack, nor your essence to a jack. That will save you the initial build costs of getting a monstrously expensive deck, while still enabling you to at least crack the occasional security camera.

Ain't perfect. Ain't nuthin' perfect.

Just a thought.

Thanks. I'll look into it. I'm also exploring the idea of getting the "Tech-Wiz" sample character, pg. 259, as a level 2 contact. I figure I could build a back story of them being drinking buddies back in university, and a non-Awakened tech guy would surely be interested in getting paid in one of your spiffy 'one-shots'.

So, maybe Connor will do simple Matrix work himself, but farm out the trickier stuff to ... "Johnny Wirez".

Could certainly work.

Just remember to have yourself a lodge set up so that you can make these things, and afford to do them, because otherwise no can do.

Yup. Factoring that in.

Now that I think about it, a magician plus a rigger/decker blend would work pretty well as a duo.

Bribe someone with a lot of beer and tickets to a Leafs game?

I'll see what I can do. I haven't had much luck in recruitment lately, but ... I have a lead I will follow.

Radical remake to Connor coming shortly. Will update his character description above when done.

I like this version better. Stepping out of my comfort zone as I am giving up on my long-standing rule of thumb to be the fastest gun in the room. A magician, not particularly fast and all on his own? Just watch him!

"It does not matter who shoots first, omae. It's who shot last that counts. This is why Cavalier Deputy, and custom ammunition."