How do you introduce new "tech" into your games?

Context:

Some of the threads that I have posted are there because I have an interest in those specific areas. For example, thinking about the state of ocean exploration is in part because I absolutely love the notion of something called "Aquarius" from a non-profit called "The First Millennial Foundation."

Here's an original image from the Aquarius concept:

https://luf.org/t/images/AquariusLogo.jpg

In recent Googling, the project has, err, developed some more: here. (I have not spent much time on this new version.)

This seems like something that could be either corp-based (this is where your service gets you...) or even bio/world-hackers.

* * *

So how do you introduce new tech, especially those that might have bigger ramifications?

I'd start with a lore search to find out if there are any reasonable tie-ins available. That sounds a lot like something the Atlantean Foundation would either be behind, or hiring runners to check out. I know 2-3 corps have secret underwater arcologies as well, which they probably don't want anyone exploring near (it's not a great secret if someone finds it) and they would hire runners to sabotage such a mission if it was likely to be a problem.

If you can find AH's files (they're still floating around here somewhere), it might save you some wiki/web search time.

Thanks for the advice. I'm sure that I have AH's files somewhere around here...

Have you done something similar? Introduced a new tech into your setting?

Not really. I did some research for the storyline in which the players were unwittingly causing a corporation and then helping that corporation do research into cyberzombies. A bit of research into who has the tech in a given year, and who operates in the same area as the players. Ares had acquired it most recently, so they were the easiest target. I was a bit vague on the metamagics they needed to find teachers for, as the ones in Augmentation don't make sense.

I like to have a lot of background information and everyone's motivations going in, to make sure the details I make up when they're needed mid-game are as correct as possible. Way easier than figuring every possibility out ahead of time.

Okay, kewl and fair enough.

I just like introducing new tech as it becomes feasible in the real world (which is what SR has mostly done, too). Well, that and magic "technology," too.

One the main questions that regularly seems to be forgotten there is: Does this technology transfer actually fit into the world / universe that one is trying to put stuff in?



And from my point of view the makers regularly failed when doing so.

<rant>
To clarify this a bit more: I always saw the Shadowrun universe as an alternate reality that diverged from our reality at around the time of the game's introduction (.i.e. around 1989) and had its technological, sociological and political progression laid out decently well into the future (of 2050+). With this reality established any advances in the varying fields of possible progression should have come mainly based on that stipulated future itself and not primarily driven by events or technological advances that occurred in our real world. SR1 and SR2 did that quite well (possibly due to the fact that they were somewhat short-lived and thus weren't able to fall into that pit trap). Even SR3 early on managed to do that quite good but it's also the edition where things were the writing suddenly seemed to include certain developments just because they happened in our real world; be it for example ...

• ... the retconned merger Chrysler-Nissan into Daimler-Chrysler-Nissan just because there was this short lived merger of Daimler and Chrysler in our real world. A retcon that was later re-reconned as far as I remember when the real world merger dissolved (btw. current writer staff: will SR Chrysler-Nissan now merge with Fiat as well "just because"?).
• ... the renaming of the ECU to Euro
• ... the sudden and not truly well described arise of open source software as well as wide-spread file sharing in the final sourcebooks of that edition while the then described Matrix technology setup didn't actually fit with either phenomena

While some certainly were happy to see those changes because that made it easier to relate to that alternate reality because of the re-familiarisation when compared to the daily life experience I was left with the feeling that those changes simply made no real sense in context of a consistent development within the game universe itself.

SR4 took that whole thing to the next level: The base tech for the new wireless SR4 Matrix had established itself in our real world and thus the re-imaged prediction of the future certainly looked more understandable and relatable but if you take an honest look at the technological progression within the game universe this technological change occured deus ex machina ... the "deus" part being quite literal considering the events of that ended SR3 with its (IMHO lazily copied) Matrix 2.0 crash and still (IMHO) failed to reasonably convey why the quite radical change in infrastructure setup occured (whereas the transition in our real world was certainly far from radical).
Minor additional nuisances were things like the somewhat forced looking introduction of the Yamaha Sakura Fubuki just after the metal storm technology was a (short-lived) hype in our real world and clearly had "impressed" a certain person within the "creative" team.

In a way - beginning with SR4 - it seems that the makers have now transitioned to a perpetual "re-invention" of the SR universe with each iteration and then just throw in whatever new real world technology / event is the flavour of the month / year. In my personal experience the same is true with many others who try to introduce the next shiny new toy that is based on a new real world development within their private SR setting.

</rant>

TL;DR: Introducing new tech / developments into established settings regularly kills the mood for me because people tend to do it without considering the plausibility of the target setting actually mirroring said real world development and therefore too often end up with a "just because" scenario.

Hmmmn. If I may? Let me ask two questions of you:

1. Which edition of Shadowrun are you using?
2. Where do you get your ideas for adventures/runs from and how do you implement new ideas "appropriately"?

IME, or at least the way that I was "taught" to GM, the real world was a rife source of inspiration. Stories in the form of books, movies etc., new technologies, social movements, and real-life events that, filtered through the setting, changed the world within which your players moved and interacted with; had agency, if you will.

Is that not the case with Shadowrun?

What possibilities would we see in the Shadowrun world that played when a group opened up SR2 in 1993 (as I did) and were influenced by the world around them?

I think I referenced this earlier in another thread: I'm predominantly using SR3 with strong influences from SR1 and SR2 and at least part of that is caused by what I tried to convey above about SR4 (and later) despite acknowledging that in terms of mechanics SR4 is by far better than my go-to edition.



I personally do get my ideas / inspirations from exactly the same sources that you mention yourself further down. It's the "approriate" implementation where things get tricky and - unlike with some of the official stuff - I regularly drop ideas when they - despite sounding interesting - end up not passing my personal reflection on whether or not that particular progression seems logical and reasonably probable within my / the established setting. Even if I deem things to be worthy to be integrated into the established setting I tend to make those changes only over the course of longer campaigns and in case of technological and large sociological shifts never as seemingly instantaneous as it happend within official material (particularly during edition transitions).



The bolded and underlined word is extremely important to me there and part of my <rant> was (and still is) based on the personal feeling that official material regularly failed to apply the necessary filters and then ended up with an adhoc introduction and some off-hand retcon-like explainations as to why the SR universe suddenly brought about the exact same changes that took the real world one to two decades without "properly" developing the revised world buidling towards that particular change.

Let's go back to that transition to the wireless Matrix from SR3 to SR4 again to show what I mean:

• Pretty much the entirety of SR3 used technological paradigms for their computer tech that stemmed from the mid 1970ies up to the very early 1980ies (just as the previous two editions had done).
• Yes, wireless tech in theory was around but nothing in the published materials (sourcebooks, novels) made any real indication that the techbase actually changed like it did in our real world:
  
  1. Little or rather no reference to things like the PC step-by-step replacing the then current terminal / mainframe setup for Matrix interaction
  2. A still extremely well protected and successful closed source environment when it came to software with little indication that software piracy was truly a thing.
  3. No pointers to cell phones and pocket secretaries undergoing a similar development towards smart phones
  4. Relatively slow and expensive satellite uplinks but no real indication that WiFi development or the GSM evolution had really kicked off

In preparation of SR4 one of the final SR3 sourcebooks suddenly made reference to a (strong going) filesharing culture like in the mid to late 1990ies along with at least some Open Source mentality ... but never a good / plausible explaination as to where that actually came from or why the megacorps would allow something like that to come into existance under their stipulated powers.

Then came the "apocalyptic" end of both SR3 and its Matrix with (its IMHO still super lazy) Crash 2.0 and thus the setting reset for SR4. Suddenly personal communicators took on the role of future smart phones and your everyday cyberdeck / personal computer and were omnipresent along with equally omnipresent "WiFi" Matrix connectivity that dropped from pretty much nowhere. SR technology made an instantaneous jump that equaled 2+ decades in our real world without any explaination on how and why that mirrored development truly came to be.

It was mainly this change that totally put me off in the beginning of SR4 and since then the writers have f*cked-up on rules and narrative so often that I simply cannot be bothered anymore to care for their products or their ideas. That's not to say that the earlier editions didn't have their own shit shows ... they simply didn't manage to put me off in terms of my personal feeling about the setting I was playing in.



In theory I would say that it should be the case for Shadowrun as well but the execution was done poorly on several occasions as far as official material is concerned and my experiences with the same attempts by groups I have played with weren't that much better either (not even my own attempts).

Another problem I personally have there is the fact that Shadowrun has its roots in the Cyberpunk genre. At least for me that genre in terms of look and feel is heavily dependant on Noir elements (as bad as I am as a GM to portray those) paired with certain heavy technological and social anachronisms and of course all those technlogical and sociological fears that gave birth to the genre as a whole in the first place. To me this has certain ramifications on what should and should not be done in terms of setting evolution and therefore strongly affects the filters that I personally apply whenever I think about introducing certain new technologies, social aspects or other developments regardless of where I'm getting my inspiration from. This poses a bit of a dilemma: Do I want to preserve my original Cyberpunk feeling in SR - thereby limiting or outright cancelling the progression - or do I want to develop the SR universe into something that tries to cast a new future "prophecy" based on more current real world developments - thereby losing the original Cyberpunk feeling - on a more regular basis?!
Personally I have chosen the former.



Well, pretty much everything that came after 1993 would be on the table for me for initial consideration. However - as mentioned above - many of the things that happened would require a somewhat slow introduction and a well devised adaption to the setting that I'm trying to introduce them into ... and some would very likely end up on the cutting floor whenever I felt that their introduction would steer the setting too far away from the original Cyberpunk setting and too much into post-cyberpunk or even strong transhumanism territory (for that I have games like Eclipse Phase).

This last bit of your post nails what I think that you're saying; your "perspective," as it were.

I just wanted to get it out there front and center that I understand where your coming from even if it's not my cup of tea. My preferred blend of tea will follow in good faith.

Oh, before I get too far, thanks for answering the edition question. Even without your previous comments, your extended comments went a long way to reinforcing it for the forgetful (et moi!).

I think I referenced this earlier in another thread: I'm predominantly using SR3 with strong influences from SR1 and SR2 and at least part of that is caused by what I tried to convey above about SR4 (and later) despite acknowledging that in terms of mechanics SR4 is by far better than my go-to edition.


No, this makes sense and tracks well with what you have said previously (IIRC).


Again, this makes sense. Profound changes can be made on the outer edge of society (technology, human systems etc.) but they usually time to implement. The filter through the various systems ala "Systems Theory" which trends to homeostasis--the desire/resistance for something to stay in the status quo?


So, I'm going to push back a little bit here. Things like wireless communication and AR were around for a long time before Shadowun was published. IIRC the first AR experimentations were done in the '60s. Again, contemporary fiction and roleplaying materials had introduced these without defying the "punk" part of the genre.

This particular intersection between Shadowrun occurred over a fairly short period of time, with SR1 in (ish?) '89, SR2 in '92, and SR3 in '98. Punk was still alive, though diminishing during this period (I remember it clearly--so much fun), and also transitioning to a new movement/aspect.

So, yeah, this could be taken to reinforce your argument. Shadowrun was already a little (a lot) retro in terms of futurism, basing itself more off the '70s and mid-'80s. It was it's own distinct thing that was clearly not keeping up with futurism and more (appropriately?) sticking to its sci-fantasy origins?

BUT...

Why is SR4 updating this to a more real world, culturally-relevant approach verboten?

"Hey, there's this old technology that's showing the length of the teeth in Shadowrun and most of it's secondary dentine," (an age-related thing), "and, more, this stuff has been around for over a decade. Maye it's time to introduce this stuff"?

It too--what?--almost two decades to introduce wireless networking into the Shadowrun universe? That's not particularly fast and, if nothing else, the fact that it took another crash seems more problematic than anything else?



Hmmmn. Would it be correct that you're taking this from a setting/genre purity/protectionism angle? That's what your subsequent bullet points seem to suggest and, indeed, your post in general.

As I'm seeing it, is this just not the whole "my table" approach, or the notion that ultimate any GM is going to have to figure out what to do to integrate new materials into their setting and, perhaps, mixed with the notion that the original setting(s?) are... errr, yes, fixed?

Put another way? You take the setting that you like and you work upward from there. (Maybe a little bit downward and then back up, too.)


Could it be that the kind of distributed cell networks that might allow this to work were not thought about at the time? Indeed, how do these work culturally and in separation from the Matrix. Fascinating question. That and HAM Radio.

(Again, I realise that this agrees with a part of the point that you're making.)


FWIW, I have not been particularly impressed with the story as it transitions to SR4 and SR5/etc. It just got a little bit wild and redundant as I was looking at things. Still, though, that's a "my table" thing.


Indeed. Fully get what you're saying. From the narrative progression idea you're not happy? It was too sharp? No setup?

I can see why that would burn.


Fully get that.

It's where I push back in part because I'm not sure that I've even felt that a setting was so--and forgive the use of this term--sacrosanct such that you couldn't blend other elements into it. After all, it's "cyberpunk" with magic with a backstory that involves magic-tech apocalapyse and, depending on what you can stomach, a future that is pure space fantasy.

(All of which makes it supercool in my eyes.)

With that said, I do agree that handling the integration of technology should be very much a narrative arc. Introducing "wireless matrix" should definitely have been a long-term squabble between corps. On the other hand, and equally, some might have justifiably seen this as a fix to the 2050 setting nd, well, that's all cool.

* * *

Again, though, it's all cool.

FWIW, and as heinous as this might be, I'm quite literally looking into GURPS Transhuman Space, particularly Under Pressure, Hight Frontier, and Deep Beyond.

It's not about turning Shadowrun into those settings, but how the information in those settings can be used to make things like Target: Wastelands more awesome outside of "ShadowTalk." Filtered, of course, through Shadowrun of a given edition.

What could THS's notion of AI bring to the table (if anything at all)? What does Uplifting look like in a world that has Magic and Awakened animals (etc.)? What are the rights of metaspecies (or AI!?) if they're not counted as being fully sapient and awrae?

All seem look cool topics for me even while it explores some transhumanist themes even if, by default, the setting doesn't allow full transhumanism. ("You mean I have to die to understand your perspective on death!?")

Except that, in the numbers filed off version of Shadowrunp in the future they figured out how to beat death and magitech trasnhumanism.

So what about this (links in the OP) about this:

https://luf.org/t/images/AquariusLogo.jpg

are "not Shadowrun"?

On the face of it, it seems like a cool technology, buys into the exploitation of the ocean and, further, dips into corp/wealthy privilege. This, of course, assumes that only the wealthy get to go there.

Perhaps I need to understand what is verbotten when it comes to Shadowrun tech?

When you start getting into Transhuman Space level AIs and Uplifts, you may want to look at the Eclipse Phase system from CGL. Its dice system is percentile based rather than d6, but it was their more futuresque setting.

I have Eclipse Phase. Beautiful product, if not entirely my cup of tea, but thanks for the recommendation!

Please understand that Transhuman Space is something that I consider inspirational in terms of the Shadowrun setting, but generally outside of the tech level and some of the themes. Still, though, new ways of thinking about things can always be valuable especially when you keep an eye on the original game.

Eclipse Phase is here, now: https://www.eclipsephase.com/

They haven't been with Catalyst for ages, my recollection is that relationship ended poorly.

Just thought I'd toss a link for anyone reading this who was curious.

Eclipse Phase is definitely golden information for looking to Shadowrun, perhaps more so because it pushes the boundary of cyber "necromancy," surely?

(Uplift looks severely wonky, for example, but if you draw in some of the concepts from Equinox...?)

What makes the ones in Augmentation not make sense?

Perhaps we can explore what tech can be added in the framework of Shadowrun that would make sense given the context of the game and what cool (or not-so-cool) things are happening in the world?

So, obvious sucky example is how does one deal with a pandemic in the world of Shadowrun?

Womp. The authors already had that covered with all the shenanigans that happened in the SR universe! (Though there are some new examples of it with respect to the nano/AI virus?)

Inspired by all the positive things that are happening in terms of NASA etc., I'm looking to introducing these into SR. These obviously need to be filtered through the lens of SR, which probably means that they're going to be a whole lot less positive at the end of this.

In Spaaaaaace...

This seems to have some reasonable coverage in terms of fixed assets--LaGrange stations etc.

To be fair, I'm not sure that the SR timeline is unreasonable when it comes to space exploration. Yet, at the same time, do you have some cool ideas.

Magi-tech ideas!?

The Big Blue Wet Thing...?

(Apologies for repeating the whole Muppet Treasure Island joke but... Yeah.)

There's obviously some shenanigans going down under the seas, but most of it is just a list of who and what and where. But what goes on down there?

It wouldn't be Shadowrun if there wasn't a reason for it all. Parageology-esque elements. Ancient landscapes and, perhaps, civilisations? Dragons building underwater colonies against the notion of the next Scourge?

Does any of this strike you as cool? Resonate to make cool stories?

Guess what I just found. http://danvolodar.ru/ancientfiles/index.html

Hopefully that answers some lore questions that have been popping up lately. Ancient History was big on connections between Earthdawn and Shadowrun during the half of an addition they were in the same world, so there will be some of that in there as well.

It certainly helps with the "lore thing" as you aptly put it.

I do believe that there are some valid questions on the idea of "new tech" and Shadowrun, though: advice to given, warnings to be had etc.?

SR1 lived long enough to see certain geopolitical changes. This is European history according to SR1:
In 2031, a desperate Moscow launched an invasion of western Europe to secure viral industrial and agricultural resources. Soviet and Warsaw Pact forces met unexpectedly tough opposition[...]
The end of Euro-War was not the end of problems. Unable to stabilize their economies, the European Economic Community, the Warsaw Pact, and what remained of the USSR fragmented. The Germanies reunited, becoming one of the stronger states in the new Europe.

That story was dated shortly after release, so they changed it in SR2 to be more in line with the real collapse of the Soviet Union. But it didn't break anything in the "active" parts of the storyline and reduced the load on everybody's suspension of disbelief, so IMO it was for the better.

I guess, and once again, a part of this is "Where do you find your inspiration?" for the stories that are told around your table? That seems to be something that I should have made clearer from the beginning rather than implying (if I did?) that these kind of things are something that I'm wanting to retconn Shadowrun with.

These are all about things that you might do around your "game table" to create your own idiosyncratic interpretation of Shadowrun that is, yet, still Shadowrun (remembering that Shadowrun will always change around the table).

With that said, that's an interesting point with respect to "suspension of disbelief" and the general verisimilitude of the setting. (I admit, however, that I tend not to engage with retrotech settings very well--there always needs to be another angle for them to work for me.)

Consider also that the individual GM/group has makes decisions as to the setting. For example, my own group wants to run with SR2-era timeline. Given that nuclear fusion is making the news once again, should I be reticent in introducing that to the setting because it isn't covered in the setting? (Notwithstanding the huge implications of the technology.)

Fusion power is part of the core setting, has been from the start.
"In 2027, Shiawase acquired the patent to a functioning and profitable nuclear fusion reactor. This quickly helped push Shiawase into the forefront of the energy game and was the start of Shiawase Atomics."
Read more here: https://shadowrun.fandom.com/wiki/Shiawase_Corporation

Although there are issues with nuclear plants and weapons just sometimes not working right for reasons nobody understands. Sometimes you have a power plant, sometimes you end up with another place like Glow City in Seattle, or a very expensive turbine that doesn't do anything.

The one example that I use happens to be part of the setting. Doh! (Egg on face etc.)

With that said, the premise remains sound. Things that come up in the news, or various types of literature, become rife for inclusion into games and...

... I'm just saying the same things over and over again, aren't I?

Fast Answer?

Have the runners try to steal it, or recover it being stolen.

Examples:
2XS
Animal-Matrix Connections
Dragon-Matrix Connections
BLACK_HAMMER.EXE
Man-Portable Lasers
Cascading ICE
AI's
Spyike 'bebbies (although this is going back a long ways)

And so-on and so-forth.


Regards,
Tir

For big technologies like this, I just... introduce it. Having a floating sea haven may have geopolitical impacts, but not gameplay impacts. And since the world is big, it's easy to say 'such and such existed before. You probably saw a five-minute snippet about it in the past.' Or 'this was marketed as a luxury golf course for PR, but underneath the artificial-island decor, there's a functioning bathyscape habitat'. Story moves on.

Ironically, in SR2/3, it is easier to introduce a massive artificial island and merpeople with cybergills than it is to introduce an iPhone or google.

Snow Crash is a parody of cyberpunk rather than a member of the genre… er, I mean, I agree. I don’t immediately remember what canonical information is available on this kind of development, but I don’t see a reason why they’d have enough impact to notice if they’d been floating around for decades.

~J