Howdy, I've picked up Third Edition and had a question about dice pools. Specifically, when they begin to refresh.
According to page 43 of the core rulebook:

Now, the question I have is - does this mean mages, hackers and the like don't get access to their special dice pools until the drek hits the fan?

If that's the case, do you tend to house rule it to something different? I've had a few chats online about it but wanted to see what the wisdom was online.

Alas, you picked 3rd Edition. I'm our resident 4th Edition cheerleader, but there are plenty of 3E people here who should hopefully be able to assist shortly.

If you take the text you quoted as "the law" then indeed every pool would only ever become available during / under combat situations. However, once you look at the various examples that include pool dice that aren't "combat pool" you'll notice that - in clear contradiction of said quoted text - many of them are described outside combat situations. So we're talking one of the (never errataed) contradictions / muddy aspects of the SR3 rules where only "combat pool" seemingly follows this particular statement whereas the other pools regularly are presented within examples and detail rules in non-combat situations where pool usage is included. Hence, ...



... I'd not necessarily say that people actively "house rule" against that particular sentence but rather usually ignore it for anything but "combat pool" dice. At least I haven't encountered a group that played anything else in those roughly 24 years since SR3 hit the market.

As far as "combat pool" outside "combat" is concerned: Well, the surprise rules (prior to initiative being rolled) and pretty much any situation where you use a combat related skill is a situation where you'll force combat to occur even if an actual initiative roll isn't called for by the GM => So it's not as cut and dry for combat pool either ... which brings me back to simply ignoring the contradictory statement on p. 43 rather than actively house-ruling against it.

If you look at some of the uses for Hacking pool and Spell pool, there are examples of use outside Combat. So obviously pool dice can be used outside Combat. Ifa GM decided to tell a player, "Sorry, you are out of pool dice until combat occurs" I as a player would roll for Initiative, refreshing my pools. The GM can then go through the initiative order and when I am out of actions, I can roll initiative again, starting a new combat turn and refreshing my dice pools.

Is all of this silly? Sure, but no more less RAW than pools only refreshing during combat. If the GM insisted combat needs to occur, I guess my PC would call for an initiative roll, then slap the wall or table -top. (I could even lose this unprovoked attack and leave my hand stinging or with broken bones. )

Players can have their various pools for any test / circumstance, outside of combat as far as I'm concerned - in games ranging from my "one night shorts, Pink Mohawk style, Friday night pizza fest" through "Black trenchcoat Wednesday but still light-hearted campaign" to my "consequences for everything my friends, you've played this game for nearly 7 years and you all know how we roll by now" Tuesday game.

One thing I do say is that for anything "extended" is that stuff like combat pool is then unavailable in any surprise round that might kick off. I.e. the team are trying to sneak past some guards and want to use combat pool to augment their stealth tests - they can, but then those dice are "tied up" for any surprise round - if the guards or another patrol DO spot them for instance. That way there's (potential) consequences for that action, that the players have to consider and evaluate, and decide what to do. Obviously as soon as the surprise round is over then, we roll initiative and everyone gets their pools back...

And otherwise, Hey! Welcome to the forums NotBob! Glad to see another 3e player in town.

That's sorta what I had been encountering - good to know. Definitely agree with Hacking Pool resetting, especially as a hacker is effectively in combat time but without rolling initiative.

A follow up question for you all is what about Spell Pool? Most of my background in SR comes from 5e, where mages ruled as kings, so I have an inherent bias towards ruling against them. Does allowing them to use Spell Pool for buffing spellcasting outside of combat get too out of hand?

It can in places, like the classic “cast F2 Improved Invisibility with more successes than the Racial Max on Intelligence”, but in general limiting Spell Pool outside Combat will constrain players to using the spells that are already the most broken IMO. Rules as written it refreshes unless you’re declaring that things are happening within the span of one (possibly unrolled) Combat Round.

(My advice is don’t act preemptively here, especially if you’re new to the edition. Get a feel for it first.)

~J

Again, I would allow it. I mean, depending on what level you're playing at, your characters if they're focussing on Magic might have Sorcery 6 and Willpower 6, and a Spell Pool of 6. Sure, doubling the dice available for either the cast or the drain is "a lot" in relative terms, but if you're casting something like Armour, then you're statistically moving them from 1 success to 2, which is hardly earth shattering. More relevant would be successes on a levitate / invisibility spell perhaps, but even then it's not world breaking. And, if your street Sam with Rifles 6 was trying to snipe that camera, and you let them have their combat pool or 6 as they took careful aim, isn't that the same thing?

It does stop the game-breaking silliness that comes with players intentionally picking a fight with each other and then withholding dice in their attack test to the point where they just can't hurt each other, just to "trigger combat", roll for initiative, and then make their pools available to do the same spellcasting they wanted to do anyway...

Thanks all for your wisdom, we ran the numbers and agree - we'll let dice pools get used for out of combat stuff. It make sense and the spells are balanced around players having access to that stuff anyway.