1) Cast a sustained Physical spell on the physical plane

2) project astrally

?? Can the Physical spell be sustained while the character is astral, or does it dissipate?

Is there anywhere in the rule books I could have found the answer had I been better at searching?

BBB Anniversity Edition p.193. .. While You Are out.. upper left Black Box.. it is talking about Astral Body and Physical Body...
..Whille both aspects of magician are connected, they do exist indepently while projecting....physical body is independent from astral body
but also connected..(IMOO) yes..PHYSICAL spell would stay active while ASTRALLY projecting..

I concur, though there's also the -2 dice pool penalty to all other tests to consider. I'd get a Sustaining Focus if I were you, rather than keep dealing with that while I was astrally projecting.

Well, I am continuing to refine my Free Spirit infiltrator, and am hoping it can keep sustained a Spatial Sense spell while it zips in and out of astral to go over/under/around/through physical barriers. Free Spirits cannot bond with foci, so that good suggestion for other characters doesn't apply.

Alternatively, with Mutable Form and Realistic Form, the spirit could materialize as an insect and get through interior walls by going under the baseboard, through the 2X4 structure of the wall, under the other baseboard, and be done with it. (With Aura Masking it looks in all ways like an insect!)

I would really like to play this PC.

I presume that in SR4 then that projecting to the astral is no longer an exclusive action?

Certainly in 3rd, projection is exclusive, so you can't do something like sustain an existing spell while trying to do so.

This is so obvious! That is why I didn't think to look for it. Duh.

And yet ...

Nowhere in the main manual is the word exclusive associated with any kind of action. It doesn't appear to be a thing in SR4A.

Furthermore, in the "The Action Phase" section, where free, simple and complex actions are described and listed, no magical activity is listed, although "Use Skill" is considered a Complex Action. So, that would include things like spellcasting, assensing and summoning.

In the "The Astral World" section, astral perception is categorized as a Simple Action. Manifestation is categorized as a Simple Action. Astral Projection is not described as any class of action. I've always assumed it to be a Complex Action.

I can't find any reference that says one cannot sustain a spell while projecting. In this particular example, the projecting and materializing PC is a spirit, for whom those functions are inherent Powers. Might that make a difference if projection prevented sustaining?

So, if anyone can find a reference that is clearer than mud, please tell me.

Been a while since I had a free spirit character. In this instance, I'd rule that the Physical spell dissipated once the spirit ceased Materializing in the physical world.

For a normal character, it would protect their meat body while they were off gallivanting around the astral. Though with all the Shedim out there, a Mana spell protecting them from possession would be another good idea. Again, Sustaining Foci are your friend in this situation.

Are you sure a spirit has the Power of Projection?

A magician can stay on the physical plane or Astrally Perceive to gain a presence on the astral plane. In a similar way, a spirit can stay on the astral plane or can Materialise to gain a presence on the physical plane.

However, I don't think one could argue that a spirit not using the Materialisation power is using Astral Projection. That would be like saying a human who is not using Astral Perception is using Material Projection. A human doesn't Project to remain on the physical plane. Therefore a spirit doesn't Project to remain on the astral plane.

Granted, I only briefly played 4th Ed many years ago, and almost exclusively play 3rd, but hearing a spirit Astrally Project sounds pretty wonky.

Spirits have the Astral Form Power. Some have the Materialization Power. Given your point, it might simply be that stopping maintaining the Materialization automatically reverts the spirit to Astral Form.

Sure, but Astral Form isn't Astral Projection.

Astral Projection is all about leaving one's body inert and defenceless as its Essence leeches away while its mind has been peeled off and floats about elsewhere in a more vulnerable state because channelling mana without the physical body is more draining and causes Physical instead of Stun Drain. If the projection cannot find and return to its body in time before it runs out of Essence, it dies; it might be able to trace its silvery cord back to the body. That's the gist of Astral Projection.

A spirit is less vulnerable on the astral plane (SR3 core book even records spirits as being reluctant to Materialise because it makes them more vulnerable). It doesn't have an Essence count-down clock running. It doesn't have to pay higher drain by virtue of being disembodied.

So Astral Form is in many ways the opposite, not the same. I suspect it would be messy to try to copy verbatim the rules for people projecting and try to paste it over a spirit's repertoire and expect it to make sense or work sensibly.

Now, you could fabricate house-rule lore rationale that reveals conjurers on Earth summon spirits by creating astral shallows / alchera on the metaplanes that force spirits to astrally project from the metaplanes, leaving behind their natural "bodies" inert on the home metaplane, as its Essence leeches away over time, causing the spirit to depart at sunrise / sundown / after a year and a day / whatever because that's when the countdown runs out, and in the mean time one could trace any spirit's silver cord back to its home metaplane to its inert "body" if one wanted to go on a metaplanar quest to do so. By the same logic, (normal) astral gateway and alchera on Earth are likely the result of metaplanar conjurers summoning us to the metaplanes (where we "materialise" onto the metaplane) to perform some task, and as soon as our task is completed we depart from the metaplane exactly like how a spirit departs from the material at the conclusion of its services. That would be pretty cool lore and exploring that mirror world where we are the pawns just as often as the chessmaster would be fun (your metaplanar summoner is named Mr Johnson, the Dweller on the Threshold is his Fixer, and here are your tasks to carry out...), but I don't think we could consider it to be canon.

We have also discussed similar ideas recently:

• Effect of sustained area effect spells in astral space, How's that work precisely again?
• Planar spells, from A(stral) to Z(ual natured)

so maybe any of the comments there could incidentally shed light on this.

RTFM!!

P. 179 of SR4A: Astral Projection is a Complex Action. No mention of exclusivity. I don't think exclusivity applies in SR4A.

Cessation of the Materialization Power is likely a Free Action as is dropping a sustained spell.



These comments do indeed shed light, including some of mine of which I had no recollection till I followed the links! Thanks.
Forcing me to actually read the f*** manual carefully, the above links/comments guide me to see the pertinent point, which is that Physical spells affect only something with a physical form. Once my Free Spirit PC de-materializes, it has no physical form. *Poof* goes the physical spell. Another type of PC would have to Astrally Project to go into the Astral Plane, which is a Complex Action, but no mention of exclusivity. A Physical spell could still be sustained on the dormant physical form of the projecting PC, but not travel with the astral form, which could not re-materialize elsewhere anyway.

So, some other means will have to be applied in order to keep the information that a Spatial Sense spell provides. The PC in question currently is designed to have an Alter Memory spell, so maybe it can implant a memory of the configuration of the area into its own mind. Or the insect idea above. Creativity is encouraged.