I'm sorry, but I'm not getting this elemental damage thing. How does this work again or what are the page numbers? I just don't get how a taser should be effective against a fire elemental, or how rock salt is going to be useful against a spirit of man. Some of this just isn't making sense.

Don

The damge from a taser isn't "normal" like that of a pistol or a sword but electricity which is elemental in nature. Like a flamethrower deals fire which is also elemental.

Most or nearly all materialised spirits have Immunity to Normal Weapons.

But I don't see how elemental damage is a blanket "get-by" card for getting around Immunity to normal weapons.

Don

Same like a bullet would not be affected by Immunity to Fire, or a sword would not be affected by Immunity to Disease. A "Normal" weapon is one with no special Elemental damage type.

If it's page numbers you want, MitS, page 51-53 lists elemental effects for manipulation spells. However, this list of elemental effects is pretty useless against spirits and elementals. Say, for example, that you want to shoot an elemental with your taser. You could argue that electricity = lightning = air, meaning that electrical damage is a sub-element of the hermetic element of air. Which in turn would imply that you could harm earth elementals with your taser darts, since they have a vulnerability to air. You could also argue that rock salts, belonging to the hermetic element of earth, could harm an air spirit, and so on.

For nature spirits, the argument goes as follows: They have immunity to normal weapons - clearly, elemental damage doesn't count as normal, so they can be hurt by elemental attacks. But, according to the list in MitS, it'd be kinda hard to find a substance that isn't elemental. And so the two sides lunge at each other's throats...

Ultimately, it's a GM call. It's a touchy subject, and I'm not surprised that Mulvihill / Boyle didn't specify more clearly what counts as elemental damage and what doesn't. My ruling is that you can't hurt something with immunity to normal weapons with a normal weapon, unless it has a specific weakness. But if you specified which kind of damage counts as belonging to which element, you'd end up with a convoluted (but precise) mess of a ruleset. So, just handle each case individually. That's my advice.

That's my feeling also. It's just when you take a look at "loading shotgun with rock salt" and ask yourself how that makes logical sense. Or how a fire elemental takes damage from electricity. It tends to cause spinning in one's head. Case by case, it is.

Don

Their immunity still helps against elemental damage, they just don't get their essence x 2 as hardened armor against it (they get essence x 1 instead).

I personally prefer the BBB's materialization entry which does not make the armor hardened (you can damage an elemental with a full auto blast, for instance). As opposed to the FAQ.

And if you take the MiTS elemental effects list as base for what is and isn't elemental damage you'll see 'metal' as an elemental effect. Bullets are metal...

I prefer to ignore the rule, most of the time, and otherwise limit it to obvious cases like Water cannons(or firehoses), Flamethrowers, and such. In general I revert to 2nd edition Awakenings 2057 rules.

I think it's just silly if you can do more damage to a spirit by throwing a rock at it than by shooting a shotgun slug at it.