I seriously doubt it. The vast majority of people in the Sixth World have no need to have a Smartlink. Just because it's a standard for most shadowrunners, that doesn't make it desireable to others, especially an implant that serves no other useful function.

In all honesty do you see hoardes of people willing to go under the knife?

Did a little stats lookup, to see if I could find a comparison with plastic surgery, found this. According to the site, over the past decade "nearly" 10 million people underwent plastic surgery over the past decade... so that's aproximatly one million a year. Considering that the population of the US is currently estimated at 287,524,305. This allows us to infer that only 1/3 of 1% of the people in the USA went under the knife in the past year. That doesn't even account for the fact that in SR there is a whole population (read Awakened) that would be harmed by a surgery. If you're wondering, the site also mentions that more than 65% of these people had incomes under $60k annually, so we're not talking the fabulously wealthy here. We're talking the middle class that are the bread and butter of cop recruiting.

I don't see cyber as being any different really... sure you'd have some increase in the desire to have it, but with that comes an increase in people who fear what could go wrong.

It's going to be more accepted than plastic surgery.

I mean, what wageslave doesn't have a datajack?

I think awakened are valuble enough to not event think about the surgery angle. I think we dropped that a while ago.

it's in New Seattle. mages don't get the cyber version.

More accepted... but never universally... it's still majorly invasive, and not everyone's gonna buy into it.

Wageslaves are different, they're more inclined to being spinelessly brainwashed by corporate propoganda. Cops have spines.

You just have to ask yourself, if you were going to join up with Lonestar/KE/whatever and you could get a free/subsidized SL(2) and possibly some other edges to keep you safer on the street and give you an edge over all the who-knows-what craziness out on the streets would you?

Without hesitation, my answer is a pretty strong yes and I think most people are going to want to get any edge they can. Of course, there are people out there that will feel differently, but by and large I think that's a minority, or would make up a minority of people that security firms and companies like Lonstar would want to hire for these positions.

Also, if I were running a security firm and could afford to subsidize implants, I certainly would, and at the very least would encourage it. Of course, the larger the firm the easier the economy of scale adapts to helping out the employees with these things.

Now most cops live on the streets, too? I imagined most would come from relatively middle-class familes and corporate enclaves, where life is relatively safe. Certainly not from the SINless masses who have to fight tooth-and-nail to survive every day.

Which is even more of a reason for them to want that edge. They know they're going to be going up against people that have lived on the streets their whole lives. And the middle class guys enlisting aren't going to want those jacked up beetleheads to be able to get the upperhand.

Well, whatever. I don't understand this mentality at all.

It makes infinitely more sense to offer incentives to acquire such implants as opposed to REQUIRING every single cop to acquire it. There's a fantastically huge difference between the two, especially as far as insurance and protection from lawsuits go, not to mention morale and public image.

"Join Lone Star today and have part of your soul ripped from you against your will!" Now that's an advertising slogan that's going to get the masses pouring into their ranks.

Smartgoggles are more cost-effective, can be distributed on an as-needed basis (instead of losing the much more expensive investment every time a cop dies, retires, or is promoted into another area), and has less of a negative image on public relations. Having a HUD display of your ammo count, being able to pop a clip out with a thought is hardly going to be the norm for police who won't regularly be out dropping hundreds of rounds of ammo every day. Plus with an incentive package, a good number of beat cops will likely voluntarily go through the procedure to have the implanted version installed anyway, thus giving the force those more valuable (and higher paid) cops for when they need it.

First response cops would likely have the goggles/shades or even just a laser sight. And if they can't take care of the situation (the gods only know you need an implanted smartlink to get a cat out of the tree or handle a domestic dispute), the second response teams would be the "bigger guns" with the internal smartlinks. Makes a hell of a lot more sense and seems a hell of a lot more believable to me. But I guess I'm just weird like that.

I don't see it as insulting them, I see it as the corp giving them yet another edge in combat. So they have a skill of 6 in Pistols. Now, not only do that have that, but they can shoot the guy dead in the forehead with better accuracy! Kind of makes them feel more special than the new kid who has the same 'ware.

I also don't nessecarily see how the goggles are going to be more cost effective.

I mean, we're talking about businesses that probably spend more money in a year than the US government does now and if not, somewhere near that level anyways. Once you get to that point, the advantages of the internal system, the likely discounts on the ware itself and I would imagine Lonestar and DocWagon could work out a pretty inexpensive deal on implant costs.

Now, I don't think Lonestar would require SL's in their people, just advocate them heavily and provide a lot of incentives to get them, which would probably translate into a 90%+ rate of acceptance in non-Awakened personel. And on that note, I think the anti-ware sentiments that permeated early Shadowrun material was quite appropriate, but a decade later in-game I think basic things like datajack's on wageslaves, smartlinks on cops, etc. are going to be assumed if not expected outright.


<edit>
on cosmetic surgery...

like Siege says about it, it's expensive. I wouldn't be suprised to see the rate of people opting for it as the cost came down to the levels most middle-class people could afford.

Besides being 4 years out-of-date, I think that site downplays the amount of people that actually do get plastic surgery. I would think just burn victims alone would make up almost the million a year that is listed.

Doc Funk has a point -- per unit, the list cost of a smartgoggle is cheaper than an implanted smartlink.

The dispute here revolves around whether or not we can justify the intangible benefits that outweigh the real costs involved in surgery and impact on employees.

-Siege

Sadly, it is out of date... that I'll admit, but the stats reflect voluntary cosmetic surgery... burn victims don't exactly wake up one morning hoping to be burnt...

Can someone please tell me where it's stated that Smartlinks (and not Smartgoggles as well -- it would have to specifically state only the cyberware version) don't hit anyone but who you're aiming at. Page reference requested. Thanks.

They don't have to go under the knife to fix the burn scars. They can just leave them be. They're just as voluntary as Pamela Anderson or anybody else who goes under.

Edit: Oh, they hit people you don't intend to hit, just less often (Supposedly).

I don't see why cost is such an issue here. They're not prohibitively expensive, and the political value for allocating money for this should be immense. Being "tough on crime" is worth a hell of a lot.

Yup. Unless you want to overly-complicate your games (Shadowrun? Complicated? Nah...), then I doubt you'll roll to see if an innocent bystander is hit.

Now, one a Rule of One, you either break the gun, are holding it backwards, hit a teammate, or hit a bystander. Other than that, you just miss and the bullet goes to /dev/null.

"holy crap you missed!"

"Yep, the bullet went right into the bit bucket."

Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn straight...

Greetings.

umm, doesn't it really depend on how the GM wants to run things-all LS can have the SmartLink, most can, some can-whatever?

The canon stats can be pretty dodgy-3/4 of the worlds population was wiped out by VITAS (IIRC-it's been a while, and I'm hoping that's still canon), right? So, what's the population now? How common's magik-about 1%,and only about 1% of that number are full mages, right?

How common are datajacks? In the original trilogy, Verner'd just been set up with a Renraku sponsored jack (I guess as partial compensation for his sister's loss, but I digress...). How much Cyber does the Average Joe see-daily, or during his lifetime?

Isn't it mostly up to the GM? Magik heavy, gear heavy, plain vanilla-how do YOU want to play it?

Personally, when it comes to the 'Star (love to hate 'em), it depends on how hard you want to make things for the Runners going up against them. MegaCorps have more money than modern governments, and access to more toys. Every officer could have a SmartLink and have constant communication with the other troopers and Central (or whatever you want to call it).

I use levels of severity. Knight Errant's a little lighter-players can get past them, if they're smart. When LoneStar shows up, it's time to beat feet-and most of you MIGHT get away.

Look at how well simple headsets allow Halo/Quake/SoCom players to co-ordinate their efforts-how well could your group of scroffy Runners fare against them (especially if the posing, all attitude neo-anarchist stereotype's present in even half of them...)? If the GM really doesn't want the players in a particular area, or to succeed in the mission, then he/she can make it so.

So, my take on it is-if the GM wants to justify it, LoneStar has everyone SmartLink-ed. If he/she doesn't, they don't.

R

Oh, you can always say "in my game, etc." and most of us will refrain from debating it further.

Generally speaking, we're arguing about the one mythical "canon universe" and how things should or would be.

Personality clashes notwithstanding, naturally.

-Siege

Soka.

And it does make for interesting reading, neh?

R

funk, that's a rule from SR2 (or maybe SR1). it was for FA--when walking a burst from target to target, your smartlink would automatically miss friendlies. nowadays, smartlinks simply save your ammo when walking fire, so it's not an issue.

That's what I thought, which is why I asked for clarification on it. In other words, it's not anything beyond a PR jockey's slogan throwing... which they can do equally well if Lone Star uses smartgoggles.

As for the indirect effect, it's pretty much silly. Sure, you have a better chance to hit someone with a -2 bonus than a -1 bonus, but when the TN is as high as 8 (a fairly reasonable base TN in my games, with cover, lighting, and movement modifiers) to begin with, that extra bonus doesn't make that big of a difference.

But I'm sure it looks a little more spiffy during target practice.

If a -1 bonus is big, a -2 bonus is bigger still and produces a verifiable result.

Especially if LS is going to be packing the Thunderbolt.

And if you accept that 8 is the standard target number, then yes -- the -2 bonus only takes it to 6 as opposed to 7 which is, for all practical purposes the same.

However, you can't always guarantee the number wil fall at 8, unless you decide to skew the results that way.

-Siege

I never said -1 was big. It's nice, but not a devestating advantage.

And honestly, I wasn't even considering that a 6 and a 7 were the same when I picked 8. The 7-9 range is just where most TNs fall during a firefight in my games, so I went with the average. Base TN 4 and Partial Cover alone give you a TN of 8, which is hardly "skewed" or "unlikely."

I don't remember anywhere in canon that it said that all LS officers (those directly involved with law enforcement) are required to have implants. If the books can be believed, there are quite a few LS officers that aren't chromed at all, by choice, yet are still employeed.

My opinion on this whole thing is "after-market option". There is mention of 'chromer' cops that are heavily chromed, and then there are those beat-cops who aren't chromed, but have all the magical support of visiting a well-paid mage (spell-locked Bullet Barriers and the like). All of these are 'after-market', not always paid by the 'Star directly (but I'm sure there's a way to get the 'Star to take out a lien on your salary to help get the loan to pay for the work up-front). The only reqs that LS has for employment (as mentioned before, for EVERYONE) is a minimum of Pistols 2. This includes everyone from GridSec to the Janitorial Staff in the Austin HQ. That's it.

The T-bolt is a nifty gun, but is also not mandatory (just like in modern police forces). They provide you with a Thunderbolt, and you can choose to leave it at home. If you like a .38 special, you're welcome to carry it, but you're buying it (and there are cops now who do just that). The 'stock' SWAT-team member from the LS book has just Wired Reflexes (Lvl 1), and all his weapons with laser sights. NAN1 has the Vegas Cops with SMGs, but still no cyber. It seems that the prevalance is towards cheap meat on the streets to enforce the law with big guns. This seems to use the theory of "If the bad guys know they're gonna get hosed if they mess up, they won't mess up as often, and the more spectacular their demise will make others not want to follow in their steps".

Just remember: your WORST enemy is an unarmed security guard with a radio. HE calls in the SWAT team who has the 'links, the LMGs, the grenades and the ability to kick your hoop into next week. The radio-guard can't do much, but you've got 2 minutes, tops, before the drek hits the ventilator. And if you geek the radio-guard, they'll come in firing (because you've proven hostile intent... see the Shoot to Kill/Maim thread). My players always freak when they hear the crackle of a radio... it means death is only a phonecall away

Good points, Baron. And looking up the stats in New Seattle, only the Elite Officer has a smartlink, which falls in very nicely with my view of how it should be/likely is.

It is canon according to the Lone Star sourcebook that all cops have a headware radio. Smartlinks are not mentioned as a requirement in canon.

In some police departments, a standard gun is most definitely mandatory with their choice of backup weapons. That is definitely a possibility that applies to some departments. Some cannot choose their weapon at all.

As an example in the Las Vegas MPD you Can NOT carry a .38 special, as that is not an approved caliber, as your weapon can only by a 9mm, 10.. or .45 ACP from Glock, S&W, HK, SIG (and I think 1 or 2 others). You can not carry a revolver, period, no matter how much you like them. I believe the same applies to backup weapons.

If I had that elusive Lone Star SB, I could answer this all...

I just saw it on eBay a little while ago, too.

It was almost $100.

I got mine off ebay about 9 months to a year ago for 65. I thought it was worth every penny, it's in near mint to boot.

OKay, this might be nitpickety, but external smartlinks break, get damaged, get lost or "fall off the back of a truck." Implants need less repairs, don't get lost, take no time to get checked out of the armoury and add the free action mode change/clip ejecting instead of taking a simple action. Makes quite a difference both logistically and economically.

Except that, when an LS is cacked, you lose some tech that you could recycle. Used cyberware degrades much faster than it being fresh.

Now, I might see them opting for Alphaware version of SL2, then reusing it once as regular grade. After that it would just be too prone to breakage.

For every standard cybernetic Smartlink installed (implant cost + surgery cost + wages during recovery), they could afford six external ones easy. And, once again, every time a cop is promoted, retired, or killed, they don't get that Smartlink back. It's as good as gone. Whereas a pair of goggles can be passed on to their replacement. Thus every time that happens, they just lost the equivalence of six more goggles.

New Seattle says that LS officer cyberware is almost always standard grade (and everyone who isn't awakened has a headware radio, as well). That said, once a cop dies it's quite unlikely that his smartlink will be useful to anyone else (stress at least once, possibly twice). A set of smartgoggles is more likely to be reusable, but (and here's the big but), it's far more likely that the perp who killed the officer could aquire the hardware and use it to cause more trouble for the cops.

The smartlink is going to have a bare minimum of one permenant stress point which can't be removed and possibly quite a few others that'll cost to fix. Not to mention that he then has to go under the knife and get the thing installed. Compare that to the thug who just pulls the goggles on and now has a weapon and a set of smart goggles to go with it (whether or not the smartlinked gun should have the trigger assembly removed or not is up for debate, though that would make it decidely less likely that weapons could be aquired from dead cops).

The benefits of some kind of smartlink are clear, and any cop who can get his hands on one will likely have one. Will it be internal or external? What would the corporation prefer? What will they be willing to do to have their choice become the reality?

In games I run, most cops will probably have a standard grade smartlink-I for the simple reason that it makes them better opposition.

[edit] Canon stats for LS beat cops include a Thunderbolt with a laser sight and a radio and comlink but no smartlink tech. So that seems to be the official answer. [/edit]

this is how i, personally, use the Star....

First thing first: The cops you see on the street, cop schmoe, has the following, at all times:
Smartlink
Smartlinked Thunderbolt/Gun of choice
Armor of some kind (Total rating: 5/3)
Radio
Biomonitor linked to HQ
A few poppers of Jazz
A pistol skill of at least 3

And after that it goes closer and closer to a average runner samurai....

Anti-Terrorist high-threat squad has at all times
Smartlink
Wired Reflexes II
Armor (Normally Light or medium military, when stealth is a issue they only wear Full form fitting body armor)
HK-227 (HK-227 S if stealth is a factor, AK-97 with underbarrel-mounted shotgun loaded with doorbreakers if they need to go in military style, they may also use shotguns)
A couple of clips of normal, flechette, Gel-pack and APDS bullets
A couple of defensive, offensive, flashbang, smoke and thermal smoke grenades
Headware radio (Silent)
Cybereyes with HUD, thermo, low-light, flare compensator and Electronic Mag 3
Headware Memory
Datajack
Biomonitor linked to HQ and the rest of the team
Sleep Regulator
Auto-injector linked to brain, filled with 5 doses of Jazz
Pain Editor
A SMG skill of 5-7
Assault Rifle skill at 5-7
Shotgun Skill at 5-7
Grenade skill at 5-7

the first cop, cop schmoe, will probably be cowardly, pro rating 2 or something... they flee if things turn sour, they call for backup at once if they spot a hostile situation, they use simple tactics, hide behind car and shoot at foe, for example, they also flee most of the time if they spot a heavily chromed runner, since they don't stand a chance

the second "cop", ATHT, has a pro-rating of near unlimited, they also use complicated and smart tactics, throw smoke grenades, let one or two teammembers fire suppressive through the smoke, so the enemy holds still (and thinks that their enemy is still behind the smoke) while the rest of the group circle around, throw flashbangs and then enter and neutralize the enemy.. that kind of thing.....

A single ATHT cop can be a problem for a group of unexperienced runners, think of what a whole unit would do.....

But, to answer the Threads original meaning: All the LS cops that are on the street will have a smartlink, the secretary won't, the janitor won't, the joe Schmoe worker of LS won't, the mages will have one though....

Will all LS cops have a Smartlink? Anybody want to look up the legality meaning for 5P-N? Even the cops aren't above the law.

Same for all the stuff you listed, including for the basic cop.

You can safely assume anything with an Availability of 2 or less is either perfectly legal or the cops just don't give a frag. Smartlink II has an avail of 6, whereas SLI has an avail of 3.

And honestly, if every cop on Lone Star had a smartlink installed, the Ruger Thunderbolt -- a weapon used almost exclusively by Lone Star -- wouldn't even bother to offer a laser sight as a standard option.

In fact, most other weapons have one or the other as a standard option, but the Ruger Thunderbolt is one of the *only* weapons that apparently has such a regular demand between the two options that it offers both standard.

true, but i don't care really, otherwise the LS will be just a little worse threat than a single devil rat (BANG! end of threat)

Not when they come in as a fragging team. And if one LS goes down, there goes the neighborhood. You can then safely assume that LS' top guys are on their way to kick your hoop from here to the next World.

They would if you play up the distopian feel. I've always seen the average Lone Star as the kind to shoot a suspect because they don't like them. Street thugs with the law behind them.

~J