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hionhurn
Hiya folks, Hionhurn here, I've had a long absence from Shadowrun since '96 and I'm just getting back to SR. I see there is a 3rd Edt. Have the rules changed significantly, ie is it worth picking up the new core books?

I see 'D' the Great Wyrm's been toasted, many other major changes?
toturi
Quite significantly. Especially with respect to initiative/combat and magic. Actually so did decking and some other stuff.
Abstruse
There's a lot of rule changes, but not nearly as many from 1st Ed to 2nd Ed. Main overview:

Initiative: Rolled the same way, but now you go in order, subtract 10, then go again. Everyone gets a turn before anyone gets a 2nd turn.

Skills: Biggest changes here. Split into three main categories of Active, Knowledge, and Languange with the latter two determined by your Intelligence score rather than by points assigned via Build Points/Priorities. Firearms and Armed Combat have been split up according to weapong type, so you have seperate skills for Pistols, Assault Rifles, SMGs, Shotguns, Edged Weapons, Clubs, etc. Etiquette doesn't have to be specialized anymore. Skill web is gone, replaced by skill groupings. +2 to default to a skill in the same group, +4 to default to attribute. No more defaulting to Sorcery from your Firearms skill (even if it was at a +18 targer number)

Magic: Spell locks are gone, replaced with variable force Sustaining Foci. No more grounding of spells into foci from the astral plane. You can move through living things in Astral Space. Initiation's changed as well, in the 3rd Ed book Magic in the Shadows. Adepts are called Aspected Magicians now, Physical Adepts are just called Adepts. Spell Points at character generation set, not tied to resources (though you can still buy additional points at 25,000¥ each).

Decking: Mostly the same as the alternate rules from Virtual Realities 2.0 in that you don't map out an entire system anymore, just give ratings for its Access/Control/Index/Files/Slave, then a Security Sheif.

Character Creation: Priority table has been totally re-vamped to reflect the new skill system. Elf/Troll race Priority C, Ork/Dwarf Priority D.

There's several other small tweaks and other things, but those are all the big ones I can think of. The only things I liked better were the old Initiative rules (but I can understand the change having played a non-cybered mundane character before and having to wait for EVERYONE else to get 3-4 combat phases before I get to do anything) and grounding spells into foci. Everything else in the 3rd Ed. is a change for the better and makes the game run much more smoothly.

The Abstruse One
shadd4d
Magic is also more variable; you don't have to memorize dart, bolt, etc. It's mana bolt, select damage level, roll, drain, effect.

Depending on how you look at it, if you are aware of an attack you get 2 resistant tests: 1) Dodge (using only Combat pool), 2) Resist damage (body + combat pool). You've really got to ration combat pool now, as things only refresh per turn, rather than per action.

If you have the rulebooks, take a look at R2, VR2.0, Fields of Fire, etc to see what was brought in.

Don
hionhurn
Thanks for the rapid responses biggrin.gif
I'll order 3ed + Companion this afternoon and work my way through them pdq to get upto date!

Hionhurn.
Abstruse
I'd suggest 3rd Ed and Magic in the Shadows if you have the 2nd ed Companion. Not too much was changed between the two, just updated slightly. Magic in the Shadows incorporated much more changes.

You also want to check out the Shadowrun Timeline on http://www.shadowrunrpg.com/ for updates on the history of the Sixth World since you've been gone.

The Abstruse One
Wounded Ronin
Basically, they made it more player-friendly. You have more starting resources and as has already been described in this thread they made it so the Wired Reflexes guys don't get all the meat in a firefight, but rather the decker with Pistols 2 also gets his shot in with his init of 4 so that he feels better about himself.

They also got rid of big umbrella skills like Firearms.
shadd4d
Spending karma to increase attributes and skills also became more sensible. It's almost like they switched the costs for skills and attributes.

Parts are more streamlined. There are some points of debate, but the system is more user friendly. I'm not sure if I'm cool with having to calculate out combat and karma pools for NPCs; I could of just gone with Threat ratings and that could be that.

Lots of things from SSC, SB, and ST got included in the basic book. It's a good basic book, although some will want the add-ons. A lot of 3rd ed was a compilation and reworking of 12+ books from 1st and 2nd ed. That was a good thing.

Don
jesstertwo
I'm restarting as well.

I've got SR 3rd edition on the way from ebay, and someone has already recommended Magic in the Shadows. Any other essential reading to get back into the game?

Old editions I have:
Shadowrun 7101, 1989
Shadowrun second edition 7901, 1992
Sprawl Sites 7103, 1990
Street Samurai 7104, 1989
Shadowteck 7110, 1992

Any of this helpful to me?

I'll hopefully be playing here a lot, as everyone I know that played back in the late 90s have gotten married and moved off. Hey, I just wanna play.
Herald of Verjigorm
All those will be helpful for background information. The current books for the gear and cyberware are Cannon Companion and Man and Machine. Some rules have changed, so you might want to be careful which toys you introduce. Guns and gear are mostly the same, genetech/bioware has changed more significantly, and some cyberware has changed.
Zeel De Mort
A lot of the older books are still pretty useful, especially for flavour text and background etc.

Newer books.. well, there's pretty much one book for each area of interest. e.g. Magic in the Shadows covers the bulk of what you need magically, although several other books have a few new little bits about it included.

Likewise Matrix is pretty much it for.. matrix stuff. smile.gif Very much like VR 2.0. It has all the rules, but if you want more background and so on Target: Matrix will help you out there.

Rigger 3 for riggers. That's it for them. It's a big book and covers the whole lot.

Man and Machine covers all the cyberware that SR3 doesn't, as well as all bioware, nanotech, cybermancy, and chemicals.

Then there's Cannon Companion, which is guns galore, advanced combat rules and the like.


I guess those are the main ones to go for, in terms of rulebooks anyway. Oh and Shadowrun Companion too. Although aparently it's quite similar to the SR2 version, I don't really remember personally. But just pick whatever you need off that list as required.

Other books like Sprawl Survival Guide, New Seattle, and the various Target books are handy too, along with the likes of SOTA 2063. Not essential though, especially if you're mainly looking for the major rules changes.
shadd4d
SOTA 2063 makes up for itself for 1) Updating the Genetech rules from Shadowtech (now uses body index), 2) adding in new magic rules, 3) Updating Corp. Security. Those three areas make it worthwhile.

Don
Abstruse
And the Culture Shock section of SOTA: 2063 is a wealth of background information for the world. SSG is really cool for background information as well.

If you're going to make heavy use of the Build Point system, Edges and Flaws, and the optional contact rules (Friend of a Friend, Contact Upkeep, Wrong Party, etc.), then you might want to pick up the revised Companion. If you're only going to be using some of these rules or not that often, you can use the 2nd Edition Companion until you get the new one and adjust afterwards.

The Abstruse One
LaughingTiger
And I'd like to add here that based on the assertions of a Dumpshocker, I ordered and recently recieved the Shadowbeat book. While I have issues with the cover art (pardon me, but feh!) the interior, what really matters, is excellent. I'd highly reccomend it as a "fluff" book, perhaps one of the best fluff books out.
Cain
Sprawl Sites is pretty useful as it stands; you'll need to update the gear and characters, but otherwise it'll fly. ShadowTech needs some revision, since bioware underwent some serious changes, and the role of certain pieces of cyber have been altered. (Like the Encephalon, and skillwires.) If you have the 2nd Ed Street Samurai catalog, most of the gear ports over fairly well.
Abstruse
Some of the newer version of the gear in SSC is cheaper or has different features in CC, but since CC is a nice book to have anyway...

All the old books are worth grabbing if you can find them cheap. Even the worst ones have something cool to contribute to a game, even if it's just background material. Even though I have M&M and SOTA: 2063, I still read Shadowtech once every month or two just for the shadowtalk.

The Abstruse One
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