Hi, all

I have little probleme with a pc who want to makes is own guns ...

Like always they search the perfect gun !

so the guy make 2 smg

One gun with High Velocity but in Canon Companion there no indication about the bullets (Like Ingram Supermach 100 have Light pistol ammo or Ares HVAR)

But on is gun he put normal smg rounds + Increase Power, so is gun do 7M with HV Round it is possible or not ? I haven't found anything on the subject in books.

So I was wandering if others players will think about it

About is second SMG he took High Velocity + Flechette round again I havent seen anything in books allowing or not these two modifications in a same guns

Atm I dont want is gun in my games, but He said me found a rules or something really good to not allow it and I will modify them.

Thx for the help

The rules are in the Cannon Companion, in case you don't own that one. The consensus seems that they're crazy and candy for munchkins, or something like that.

Sounds like you're the GM, so I probably don't have to remind you (but I guess I'm doing it anyway ) that you can always say "no" to something that doesn't fit your game, even if there are rules for it.

yeah, the cannon companion rules for gun making are kupo for munchy-nuts.

If you're the GM then you can always let them have it...but then it gets stolen, and hilarious scooby doo antics ensue.

If I were the GM I'd let them have it but they'd have to go through an ordeal to get it. Loot it from a corp, go on a goose egg hunt through the jungle, the bowels of the Redmond Barrens, and so on and so forth.

Make it doable, but make it hard. At the end they get their dream weapon and a whole mess of enemies and jealous onlookers who want it. Badly.

The problem is not on let the player have them but more on if the High Velocity + normal Smg round is possible and on HV + flechette round is compatible ...

they give no precision in Canon companion.

If it doesn't mention it its either A) no problem or B) GM ruling.

Invoke the power of GM ruling. Me personally would allow both flechette and would say normal SMG rounds are used.

Of course flechette rounds are going to hit a lot of innocent people and do a lot of property damage. The star will be on your ass in short order.

I'd also rule that the noise is just insanely increased. Double normal firing noise modifiers for all the metal bits and pieces hitting walls, glass, people, etc, etc.

HVAR is a really dumb mod if you ask me because silence is golden and he who is not heard is not bothered.

Get a silenced pistol, a steady hand, some gel rounds, and a headshot.

I'd rule a headshot like melee does and say only armor worn in the area counts. For simplicity I'd rule that any location on a bodypart covered gets full rating because to do otherwise requires major retooling of the armor system.

Vests wouldn't cover arms. Nothing would cover hands unless its security, military, or form fitting body armor of any sort. I figure even just the shirt can thrown in gloves.

If you feel the need for HVAR get a fraggin' LMG. Barrel mount, gyro stabilization, and all sorts of goody mods to reduce the recoil. You sure as hell aren't hiding that SMG and still firing it with any sane hope of hitting something, so might as well go for an LMG because if you use it at night for that corp raid, conceal don't matter a bit. Either the human or technological eye notices you and raises the alarm or it does nothing.

Thx Cursedsoul
You gave me a good point of view

Another hint, if your player doesn't like the idea of random GM-fiat in the name of game balance, put it in game:

Is the character a gunsmith?
If so does she have her own shop (at least)?
If so, where does she get the parts?
You realize these things take a while to make, don't you? Unless you're taking time off shadowrunning (and hence, making money) to do it

If not, whom does your character know that's going to make this thing?
How much of a markup are they going to charge? Can you still afford that?

etc. Now of course, you actually know the char, and your goal is to ask a line of questions along this theme that will lead to:

GM: So, how do you plan to get that manufactured?
Char: Uh . . .
Gm: I thought so. On the other hand, your fixer mentioned last week that he's got an Uzi III that happened to fall off the back of a t-bird. Maybe that would do?

And of course, if the char has a really good in-game excuse to hae this thing and roleplays it well, you might consider letting them have it. But you're the GM, and it's your call (and remember, you can always take it away later!)

--Ethidium

Another good way to make players reconsider making a dream gun, is asking them if they want to see it in the hands of someone who is shooting at them?

Sure, having a HV SMG with a base damage code of 7m, or a heavy pistol with a base damage code of 10m and burst fire can lead to alot of dead bodies. But what happens when a mob hitter shows up with that same pistol and does 15s (10m + 3 burst + 2 ExEx ammo) to your head?

If it's accessible on the streets, you can rest assured the corps/government/yaks/whatever has access to better.

Hehe yeah I already know and them too, when u have something they have better ...

The big question with those guns was, if there was they were realizable. Like put put Wired reflex with Synaptic accelerator.

So I was wandering if in the book they forgot to stats like when you use an HV SMG its only Light pistol round going in.

Same for High Velocity and Flechette Only.
So I was searching for opinion on the subject

Like I not the only GM in my gang so we must all accept the gun. I dont think they will pass.

Thanks again all !

Are there any useful online programs for assembling guns via these rules?

JaronK

Personally, I allow the customization rules but not the creation rules. The creation rules are for GMs only IMO, but I love it when my players get stuff like engraved guns for their characters.

The Abstruse One

Addressing your original question: the "Available Options By Frame" sidebar (or whatever that greyed area is called) on page 76 and 77 of CC shows what the different frames can have done to them. The SMG frame allows "High Velocity Capability," but not "Flechette Only." So there shouldn't be any "Flechette Only" SMGs in the game.

As far as I know (although that doesn't mean anything) "Increase Power" and "High Velocity Capability" can be used on the same weapon with the only downside being high cost.

Cannon Companion doesn't always specify, but Fields of Fire shows all HV weapons firing "Light Pistol" ammunition. This is probably to give an in-game reason for the lower base damage codes on those weapons- which is most likely for game balance issues. The idea of using a .380 or other type of round that could be considered for "Light Pistols" in an assault rifle or machinegun is pretty stupid- and if any reason was given for the small bullets being necessary for HV, I missed it.

If you're looking for canon-ness that's the answer (I think). HV needs (for some unspecified reason) "Light Pistol" ammunition to work. In handguns and SMGs, it gives the weapons a "Light Pistol" damage code, in assault rifles and machineguns they just reduce the power (by two?).

HVAR
this is kind of like it: http://world.guns.ru/assault/as63-e.htm

No it is not. High Velocity, bizarrely enough, has nothing to do with velocity at all. The Shadowrun designers clearly did not know what velocity means, as the HV weapons are just supposed to be high rate of fire. Something like a G11 or AN-94 is closer in concept.

It's basically a rotary barreled p90 from the picture.