A mage casts trid phantasm and nobody resists the spell, the spell causes a gigantic troll to appear and shoot ant people, they believe they are being shot by a real person so whaat happens when the bullet hits them?

Also if one of the spell targets attempts to shoulder charge the troll what happens?

I thought if someone was shot by a Phantasm, you roll as normal and 'figure out the damage done'. The person doesn't take any real damage (no boxes are marked off), but they behave as if they were hurt. But I guess they'd get a second chance to resist the spell fi they noticed they're not bleeding.

Those people will believe they have been shot, and will see blood etc, and act as if they were in shock. In reality, they of course, suffer no wound, nor TN modifiers to do anything. Illusion spells cannot cause any physical harm, either stun or wound.

However, they can make you believe the walk light is green and that there's no cars around as you go across the crosswalk in the intersection, when in reality you're going to be run over by the 18 wheeler speeding through the intersection who can't stop because you've entered the road against a walk light.

Someone charging the troll will simply go right through it, and believe they have unbelievably missed the troll.

How good the Trid phantasm is depends on the force and successes IMO. Low force with low successes, people will start to believe what they're seeing *isn't* real, but will continue to see the illusion, as they have already failed the resistance test.

High force and numerous successes... people will believe everything they see, no matter how outrageous.

but what skill does the troll illusion use to shoot with?

also what happens if someone shoots an illusion, how do we work out if the illusion is damaged/ percieved to be damaged by the real person?

Everything about the trid phantasm is determined by the mage sustaining the spell, and the combination of force/successes.

The mage can have the troll use ungodly skill, or amatuer. The mage can also make the troll look like gunfire has wouneded it, or bounced off.

Since the illusion is entirely mana-based, and has no physical substance, you cannot damage the illusion with gunfire, explosives, etc.

However, the mage sustaining the illusion, if he/she is physically hit by said explosion, bullets, etc, may or may not end up dropping the spell involuntarily.

When they get hit, depending on the level of detail either the bullet vanishes into them or they see a wound, blood splatters, etc. They don't feel anything, and unless they're looking at the point of impact nothing is likely to happen. If they are looking, reactions can vary.

~J

Isn't phantasm a voluntary target spell?

nope sadly not, this is a potentially overpowering spell though

No, that's Entertainment.

Phantasm is also, according to Magic in the Shadows, a realistic multi-sense illusion. That includes tactile and temperature elements, so they will feel something. What they feel is... up to the GM since the rules unfortunately never go into detail about what illusions can and cannot do in that context. At least not as far as I know. But considering it's a heavy-hitting Deadly drain spell, it should be a bad-ass spell..

Remember that the illusion can only appear on the people inside the area of effect. Anyone looks at the area will see it, and anyone in range will hear it. But for the bullet to "hit" them, they must be in the radius. Whether the illusion causes realistic pain and suffering depends on how well the caster rolls. A good spell slinger would insure the bullets seem to just miss the targets, they only here them wizzing by and things denting.

That's what, the third time this has come up, counting the original thread?

~J

What about invisibility? Can you do a phantasm of the area you're standing in without you in it and then move around completely unseen?

So who is controlling the illusion, the mage or the perception of the person being effected by the spell, if it was the mage would the troll move out of the way automatically if you attempted to shoulder barge as spells are not intelligent!
What is to stop the mage stating that he wants his illusion to fire grenades at everyone to explode in their face? No physical damage but people will react if it is a full sensory illusion!
Very open for abuse

That's why it has such a high drain. Not much of a balancing factor, but my mage has yet to figure out how nasty this spell can be...but he will once it's used against him

The Abstruse One

Do you have something wrong in your head, or are you really just the epitome of your signature? Not that I really need the answer to that since it's obvious...

Anyway, for the umpteenth time, here's three completely different illusions for you. Each one is completely different, and each one is a single casting of the spell.

1. A dragon appears from around the building and vomits a gout of flame, setting the streets on fire.

2. A dragon appears from a cloud breathing fire.

3. A dragon appears.

If you had cast the spell as 2 or 3, and those were the parameters you set when casting it, then that's all they would be. If you later wanted that dragon to breath a gout of fire and set things on fire like in 1, you'd have to recast the spell because that requires a completely different illusion. But if you set the parameters as 1 to begin with, you wouldn't need to because it was already part of the illusion.

I have no idea why you can't get that through your head.

As this is a sustained spell would the illusion not act as the caster desires and change to how the caster would want the illusion to react, ie. the dragon could come out of the clouds one phase, then the mage decides I want it to breath fire, so it then breaths fire.
The problem is who decides the effects on someone from the illusion, if it is the defenders mind creating an effect he would react accordingly but everyone would react in a different way thus the illusion would change for everyone!
If the mage controls the Illusion how can he possibly have the power to state the effects of that illusion on someone.

I'm with legend... as it's a sustained spell, it would be able to do whatever your desire. Having a dragon suddenly breath fire wouldn't require recasting the spell.

There's nothing in the spell description that says you can't change the appearance of the illusion as you're sustaining it.

The only time I'd say no is someone locking the spell into a focus, and leaving the focus behind - at this point there's no intelligence guiding the illusion.

OK, but would it move around with you? It's an area effect spell but can you move that area once you cast it?

Why not? You can move Invisibility, Mask, Stealth, Silence with no problems - and all these spells are from the exact same category - Indirect Illusion spells.

No, that was a limitation of your own inability to comprehend a point. No matter how many times it was attempted to be hammered into your skull.

Questions:
1. Can a Trid Phantasm be used on yourself, perhaps to disguise yourself?
2. How many points should I allocate to Trid Phantasm if I don't use a focus?

Maybe he gets kicks out of taking excessive drain.

~J

No, I get a kick out of spell utility. So many spells and skills, so little points...

I, personally, consider Phantasm/Trid Phantasm to be a sort of "mother of all illusions" and allow it to emulate the effect of lesser illusions of the appropriate type (physical vs mana). I feel that this is justified by the hefty drain code. Opinions on the matter do vary, but I've never had or thought of any problem with that ruling.