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dandy
like the topic says.

since i have never played a magician before i am still unknowing how the mass-spells(? don't know the term on english) work.

my problem:

cat shaman with a his running companions face several opponents. cat shaman casts mass blindness.

now, who is really affected by this spell assuming all targets and friends are withing the reach of the spell (magicrating6 = 6 meters)

is it:

1. everybody in reach of the spell INCL. the team AND the cat shaman
2. everybody in reach of the spell INCL. the team EXCEPT the cat shaman
3. only the OPPONENTS?

please tell me why and where i can find it. i have flipped through SR3 and MITS, but i am unable to find any hint or anything regarding this ...

please help me out ...
RedmondLarry
In English we call these "Area" spells. The magician picks a target when casting these spells, and the spell is centered on that target.

See the 3rd paragraph on right column of page 181 (English edition of Shadowrun 3):
QUOTE (SR3 page 181)
Area spells can affect more than one target at a time. The base radius for all area spells is the caster's Magic Attribute in meters. Area spells affect all valid targets within the radius of effect, friend and foe alike (including the caster).
The words "valid targets" in this description have to do with Limited Target spells, such as "Stunball Troll", or "Manaball Spirits", or "Wreck Motorcycles".
Elve
Also you can only affect targets you can see (or perhaps feel via touch etc...)
Kanada Ten
QUOTE
Elve
Also you can only affect targets you can see (or perhaps feel via touch etc...)

Not quite. Indirect Illusions effect anyone who enters the spell's radius even if the caster is not present at that time. The same is true of sustained Manipulation spells such as Wind, Ice Sheet, Shadow, ect.

QUOTE
dandy
now, who is really affected by this spell assuming all targets and friends are withing the reach of the spell (magicrating6 = 6 meters)

Mass Blindness is a Direct Illusion meaning it effects everyone inside the radius visible to the caster (option 2). The spell could even effect the caster if there was a mirror in the area and he or she was also inside the radius. The spell will continue to affect those people inside the original radius regardless of where they travel so long as the spell is sustained.
Liquid_Obsidian
even it's Direct illusion , the caster's fully avare of it to be what's it: AN ILLUSION , i wouldn't think he would be affected...
Kanada Ten
QUOTE (Liquid_Obsidian)
even it's Direct illusion , the caster's fully avare of it to be what's it: AN ILLUSION , i wouldn't think he would be affected...

That would be a house rule. I personally don't allow Illusions to be foiled simply by knowing it's false. If you watch someone go invisible, you know it's an illusion, but they are still invisible. YMMV.
Misfit Toy
Correction: Indirect Illusions only affect an area or subject within its area of effect. Targets (anyone witnessing the spell) outside the area of affect are still influenced by it.
Kanada Ten
QUOTE
Correction: Indirect Illusions only affect an area or subject within its area of effect. Targets (anyone witnessing the spell) outside the area of affect are still influenced by it.

Again, not exactly. Foreboding and Hot Potato as examples. Invisibility and others like that, more so.
Cain
QUOTE (Kanada Ten)
Mass Blindness is a Direct Illusion meaning it effects everyone inside the radius visible to the caster (option 2). The spell could even effect the caster if there was a mirror in the area and he or she was also inside the radius.

Small correction-- the caster is always assumed to have LOS on himself. So, if he casts a manaball and is within range, he can get hit by his own spell.

Side note: I allow touch-range area-effect EM spells to have an additional decrease in drain. Of course, no one's been stupid enough to try and take me up on that offer...
Kanada Ten
QUOTE (Cain)
Small correction-- the caster is always assumed to have LOS on himself. So, if he casts a manaball and is within range, he can get hit by his own spell.

I thought the caster was only considered in touch range for some reason. Oh well.

QUOTE
Side note: I allow touch-range area-effect EM spells to have an additional decrease in drain. Of course, no one's been stupid enough to try and take me up on that offer...

I always thought they should have a cone damage spread as a third spell class with Elemental Manipulations. Something similar to using a shot gun.
dandy
uh, wait a second.


let's assume the magician casting mass blindness is standing with his group approximately 10 meters from 4 enemies.

so casting mass blindness is only going to affect the magician and his group? or does the spell radius count from "point of impact" (i.e. the guy in the middle of the 4 opponents)???

this is confusing ... does the casting range wander with the enemy i casted the spell on? meaning if the enemy moves the target radius moves with him ???
Luke Hardison
QUOTE (dandy)
uh, wait a second.


let's assume the magician casting mass blindness is standing with his group approximately 10 meters from 4 enemies.

so casting mass blindness is only going to affect the magician and his group? or does the spell radius count from "point of impact" (i.e. the guy in the middle of the 4 opponents)???

this is confusing ... does the casting range wander with the enemy i casted the spell on? meaning if the enemy moves the target radius moves with him ???

It affects everyone within (Magic) meters of the person on whom you cast it. So you should get all four enemies if they're standing no more than 6 meters from the guy in the "center" of the group.

It affects those four guys. If another group of security guards round the corner, say 20 meters behind the first guys, they're unaffected, even as you sustain the spell on the first four. You've got another spell to cast. On the upside, as you continue to run through the compound and the security guards are chasing you, four of them are still blinded until you choose to stop sustaining the spell.
dandy
oh i see ... that means that ALL persons that WERE affected by the spell will continue to be affected untill i drop the spell? even if they split up (ie. running in different directions)?
Dashifen
QUOTE (dandy)
oh i see ... that means that ALL persons that WERE affected by the spell will continue to be affected untill i drop the spell? even if they split up (ie. running in different directions)?

Yup. If you sustain the spell, I usually consider the effect sustained, even if the targets move out of your LOS. Not sure if that's canon, so YMMV, but it's the way I've always done it.
Friggas Ring
QUOTE (Dashifen)
Yup. If you sustain the spell, I usually consider the effect sustained, even if the targets move out of your LOS. Not sure if that's canon, so YMMV, but it's the way I've always done it.

I usually allow players to choose which way the spell will work when they cast it: whether it sticks to the subjects in the area of the spell when it's cast or if it's bound to the area and anyone who enters it can be affected and once they leave the area, they recover.

We figure it out like this: if you target and specific point with an area spell, it stays in the area and can affect anyone who enters it. If you center it on a person, it sticks to the people there no matter where they go.

It's not canon, at least, I doubt it is, but that's the way we play. I know most people play that it sticks to the people in the area of the spell, but I remember reading the example about Quickening in MitS where the shaman quickened a stench spell to a restaurant and any patrons who walked in were affected.

I don't have the book in front of me though, so I may be making things up.

-fr
The White Dwarf
Based on the detailed description of Area Spells on p51 in MiTS, I would handle it as the text there indicates: You target an area within LOS. All valid and visible targets in that area are affected. Anyone entering or leaving the area/LOS is affected or unaffected as appropriate. The caster may move the area while sustaining it, as indicated by the text.
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