Greetings.

SR, IMHO, is about teamwork. It's about judicious appilcation of the appropriate type and amount of force at the right moment for maximum effect at minimum effort. Subtlety makes it SHADOW-Run.

A Street Sam should try to do double duty as a Mage/Shaman. Your Decker shouldn't do PhysAd work. Specialization is the word in the Sixth World-right?

A variety of skills is good, but a Jack-of-All-Trades will be Master-of-None. If I were a Johnson hiring a team, I'd know what skills I needed and get a team that had them (Why pay for more than what you need, correct?)

Why do I bring this up? Well, I was looking at MitS, and when I tried to figure out which spells could be used by Psionic characters, I came up with an impressive list, WITHOUT doing a lot of over-rationalizing. And these are supposed to be severly limited characters (according to what I've seen and read-even on Dumpshock)?

Sure, no access to Spirits could be rough (unless you use Thoughtforms)-but who needs them? Spirits CAN burn through Karma rather rapidly, so a Psionicist can focus on developing his/her Power with Karma.

Look at the Spells...

Combat Spells-TK Blasts or Mental Blasts (so poular in comics)-easy enough

Detection Spells-pure Psi, naturally

Health Spells-a bit of a stretch, but Psychic healing is very common (I'm a Massage Therapist and know lots of Healers that use Enrgy Work and Reiki-some to good effect)

Illusion Spells-Mental Manipulation, natch

Control Manipulations-ditto-Telepathy all the way

Elemental Manipulations-Probably not, unless you get into Pyrokinesis and the like

Telekinetic Manipulations-nuff sed

Transformation Manipulations-This one's hit or miss. Ignite=pyrokinesis, the Astral Spells would work, but probably not much else

All in all, I'd say it makes for a well rounded, competent character that has plenty of room for advancement within his/her specialization. With some Initiation and some well spent Karma, they could be quite puissant.

Any comments?

R

I've run psionic PCs with remarkable success. The key is having a player who is interested in the role of a psionic, and who is willing to play the advantages and flaws as they come. I was happy to let her take a powerbolt variant as "Psionic Smackdown" although, perhaps manabolt would have been a better choice. I am fond of psionics who can only use their powers against other minds and living bodies. When you start adding telekenesis and pyrokinesis, you open up too many bags of worms.

On the health spells tangent, though, I wouldn't allow a psionic to take Heal (the power of the mind cannot close those bullet wounds... sorry), but spells like Prophylaxis, Antidote, and any spells that treat disease would be fine, based on the work of such healers. Perhaps a spell that gives some form of pain tolerance might serve as a good compromise.

Psionics, as listed in MitS, suck. Personally, I think the version in that book is needlessly hampered, and a new version would be more appropriate.

Here's the notes for a Psionic variant I was working on once upon a time. I never really playtested it or tried to iron out any problems, and it's probably more complicated than it needs to be, but I thought it had potential. Do with it as you please.

PSYCHICS
Priority Cost: Priority A or 30 Build Points

Abilities: Psychics have access to all spells, but rationalize them more as innate powers than formulaic spells. They are able to summon Spirits of Man as well as Ancestor Spirits, but they refer to these spirits as "Psychic Constructs" (or for the more superstitious, "Ghosts") built from the ambient emotional and psychic residue in a given area. Psychics also have Astral Perception and are capable of Astral Projection. Spirits are summoned as a shaman, but psychics are otherwise treated as hermetics for purposes of tools and implements.

Advantages: Psychics are exceptionally adept on the astral plane. They gain an additional +10 bonus to their Astral Initiative while projecting and they begin play with an Astral Pool the average of their mental attributes. This Astral Pool increases with each grade of initiation, just like a normal magician. Finally, a psychic must choose one specific category of spells (Indirect Illusions, Telekinetic Manipulations, Detection, etc.). They receive a +2 dice bonus when casting or resisting Drain caused by spells in that category, and receive 10 bonus Spell Points (35 total) that must be used to purchase spells form this category only. There is no known records of a generalist psychic.

Disadvantages: Psychics are unable to summon or control spirits other than Spirits of Man and Ancestor Spirits, and even then do so with a -1 die penalty. They also suffer a -1 die penalty when casting any spell other than those within their specialty.

Aspected Psychics: An aspected psychic (Priorty B/25 Build Points) gains all of the aforementioned Advantages -- including access to an Astral Pool and bonus dice for their specialization -- but lose the ability to create psychic constructs or learn and cast any other spells. They do, however, retain their ability to use Astral Perception and Projection. Aspected Psychics do not receive any bonus spell points (only the usual 35 all aspected magicians receive).

Additional Notes: Psychics are free to join any intiatory group that welcomes them and are not ignorant or in disbelief over other traditions of magic. They simply take a more "scientific" view, even moreso than hermetics, of magic and the way magic works. A psychic may also join a "school" (see MitS for details) as long as it fits within the theme of their tradition.

The idea that a psychic is necessarilly limited is in ways true, and false.

Cons: Spell formulae can't be shared. Your conjuring abilities are extremely limited. Joining a group will be a bitch, so prepare to self-initiate.

Pros: The idea of playing a psychic can be fairly neat, and need not be limiting.

A psychic sees their own mind as the source of their power. They experience "Drain" because they're tapping their own reserves of mental force when they employ those psychic skills (read: spells) they've honed. Translating a spell formulae is an arduous task because the so-called "magicians" must use cumbersome (yet effective) symbols, metaphors and rituals to direct their thoughts in the proper form to affect reality.

Psychics excel at spellcasting, because any spell can be seen as a psychic power:

Combat spells are bolts of psychic force, attacking psyches, delicate nerve endings or critical blood vessels in the brain.

Detection spells are the expanded psychic senses of an Awakened mind.

Healing spells draw on the innate power of beings to repair or alter themselves.

Illusions are mental projections in the mind's eyes of the foe, or immaterial alterations of light maintained by steady concentration.

Manipulation spells reflect both the awesome power of the mind on material matter, or the powerful ability to seize control of minds and bodies.

Ritual magic is a long and exhausting use of pooled psychic power to locate a target with something connected to them...literally sending the mind out into the ether in search of an identical psychic trace.

Physads (especially physical magicians) suffer few penalties in believing that their awesome prowess is a product of their mind rather than magic.

Astral perception is an extended sense, where the Psychic may study the aura of living things. Actual astral projection is a wondrous freeing of the mind from the mortal shell, unencumbering the psychic of his fleshy vessel.

Psychics make outstanding initiates; Sensing, Psychometry, Divining (especially as precognitive visions, but sometimes aided by devices or rituals), Centering, Spell Defense, Absorbing, Reflecting and Possessing are all natural powers for Psychics to seek and master. Ascetism and thesis are excellent ordeals, as are metaplanar journeys (to the psychic, these are altered, higher states of consciousness; dream journeys; and or astral trips to other dimensions pervaded with psychic energy.

Quickening is a natural to use on any detection power or mental manipulation; some psychics may be able to justify being able to quicken other spells.

"Spirits" are powerful, primitive mythagos dredged from the human mind by so-called magicians. As representatives of the magician's own mind, shaped by their preconceptions, invested with a great deal of psychic power and controlled by the will of a trained mind; "spirits" may be difficult foes indeed. Fortunately, a trained psychic may use their own will to upset the delicate balance of symbolism and hypocrisy within such a mythago. Magicians who lose control of their "Spirits" are faced with a rogue and powerful construct, a mind budded off from their own consciousness shaped by their desires and local psychic conditions. Such beings may become powerful indeed, and develop alien modes of thought that render them extremly difficult for even a trained psychic to destroy.

Insect spirits, indeed, are a true perversion of a deranged psychic mind. The obsessed and sick individual abandons their humanity, their inner desires manifesting as a fixation on a "Queen" as they use their psychic gifts to warp the mind and bodies of innocent victims beyond repair.

Enchanting is difficult, for it is so engrossed with ancient mystical symbolism. More modern psychics have developed a number of devices which are powered by psychic energy, much more sound and scientific than the primitive, though just as effective, "foci" which are constructed with twigs and bits of rock. Many psychics possess stones, usually semi-precious gems of crystals, which after deep meditation and careful construction of a psychic resevoir within the crystalline lattice act as pools of psychic power or tools enhance and refine the psychic's gifts in some direction. The concept of a melee weapon as a focus is an old symbol, a mental crutch which "magicians" use to direct their energies in the phsyical world. Still, a psychic may likewise create a lattice within such a device, which become charged with psychic energy when in contact with the psychic and thus becomes a devestating weapon.


Yeah, I know: fanciful at best. But you can make a good case of it. Check of Jean Lorrah's "Savage Empire" series for one.

I guess it depends on what type of psychic character you're after. I prefer the Victorian-style take where it was basically a scientific way to explain supernatural powers and ghosts. Sci-fi has, unfortunately, twisted it into the whole silly "mind bolts" thing. But if you're into that, more power to you.

But to address the Enchanting issue, I think you're confusing foci with magical items. A focus is exactly that -- something a magician uses to focus their minds and their abilities. If any tradition in the game held the highest potential for being a focus addict, its a psychic. Psychic adepts, and even moreso physical psychics, are also very easy to rationalize with no special rules required -- mind over body is the whole point of somantic magic.

However by Canon, psychics may not use any foci. Other then that, I can see how Cerebro is just a huge, uber-powerful psychic power focus.

Indeed. How Xavier is able to use something like that without getting Focus Addiction every single time is beyond me; it gives him enough power to cast "Detect Mutant" with a range of the entire planet!

Then again, his own range is in the hundreds of miles, as I recall, so he's pretty good himself.

Thanks, AH for the cogent post-very well thought out reasoned.

That was my point-limited in terms of Gameplay, perhaps, but still potent, when utilized and played properly. I think it would be quite fun to play a Psionic character. Anyone try PsiOps? I just have the demo disk, and the reviews aren't that hot, but it was great fun. Seems dead on for a Psionic Runner, though.

I don't know that the Psionic character needs re-worked. Yes, there is a hefty penalty for what you get (take a sorcerer Adept over a Psionic for munchy goodness), but it DOES reflect the fact that everything that the character believes about himself and the way the world works is flawed-quite the handicap, but what an opportunity for roleplaying.

Imagine trying to explain to your friends/teammates why magic doesn't exist, and how 'mages/shamans' are deluded. Citing crackpot scientific theories debunking the 'magic myth'-heck, you could have a Lone Gunmen-esque group off psychic phenom fans/wannabes as contacts-just to reinforce your world view. An outcast amongst outcasts, even though your views are severely bent, a runner group may need to take what they can get in the magic (sorry, psionic) department. Like the average Shaman's that easy to get along with, let alone understand, anyway...

I'll have to work up a Scryer-like characetr (from PsiOps) and see how he handles a run or two (if the GM'll let me).

R

Playing a psionic as written is more like building a character with 100 build points instead of 125 build points. It's doable, but unjustified. As written, the psionic rules are broken; game balance works in both directions.

Thanks, littlesean-you beat me to my response.

Broken or no, role-playing a character (as set up by the rules) should be fun. Why don't I just go munchkin all the way-a dikoted albino gnome, etc.?

Because THAT would be lame-AND far from 'gimped'.

Littlesean hit the nail on the head-an atypical, functional character that COULD be a real asset. Probably fun to play-and most GMs (modesitt notwithstanding) would probably relish the challenge.

In RL, I'm an Alternative Health Practitioner. I make a living through doing things that don't behave quite the way the Average Joe thinks that they should-but they still do (and I make an excellent living at it). I also practice Magik-last little bit of Ritual that I did netted me an easy $1000 (within 24 hours)-completely unexpected source, completely without precedent. I'm a pragmatist, what works must be true-and I try to see patterns behind these forces-regardless of the current trend in scientific thinking (a little historical perspective goes a long way). I'll jump at the chance to play a character that's a little out of step, anytime.

Anyone ever try Paranoia? An extreme example, but the Players were all doomed, 'gimped', and basically walking around with HUGE targets on their backs while trying to stick it to each other. And it was great FUN-with the right mix of folks. I guess it may be beyond some folks, just as some folks probably can't get through concepts of winning and losing.

That said, thanks for the input. Maybe a poll would be in order-Psionics: Lame or Not Lame or Broken or somesuch...

R

Personally, if I wanted to play a psionic, I'd just use the rules for sorcery adepts, and then only pick spells that are appropriate for what a psionic would use. Thoughtforms always struck me as a little silly and simply a prop-up for what would normally be a weak character. And there's really not a whole lot of spells that you can't explain as being a form of telekinesis, pyrokinesis, telepathy, object reading, clairvoyance, or other "known" psychic phenomena. You'd have access to most of the curative-type Health spells, almost all the Detection spells, and probably a good number of the Manipulation spells.

Sure, you'd have to impose the limits yourself, and then follow those limits -- but how hard is that really, compared to developing totally new (mostly ill-fitting, it seems) rules? Sometimes I think people need to remember that RPG stands for role-playing game, not rule-playing game. Why mess around with rules when you can just adapt something to existing rules easily enough?

Hmmm...

Actually, Misfit, that makes a lot of sense. I like it. Wonder if the GM'll go for it-if he's not too 'by the rules' and open to compromise.

Of course, I kinda like the Dryad concept (probably in the minority there-meh). I guess that's a matter of opinion. I don't see them as much more flawed than Aspected Mages or Shamans with Totem Disadvantages. There may be some doubt as to having them as a Race as opposed to just an Archetype, though-that might have been a better way to introduce them.

R

Misfit, you have some good points. Designing a character like your troll would be taking the character creation rules and bending them in ways that just aren't fun.

I rather like the way Black Isis put it and I really like the whole 'appearance' thing much more than the mechanics. I tend to reuse the mechanics available by simpy putting a new face on them. In our group we had a someone who wanted to play a Rattlesnake shaman, so rather than go and create a Totem from scratch, I told him to play a Cobra Shaman by the rules, but simply call it Rattlesnake and act accordingly. It worked out very well. I had someone following Orca by simpy using the Wolf Totem with slight variations (The Orca totems I have seen do not capture the essence of the creature very well, whereas Wolf does).
In a different campaign, the Skip, the rattlesnake shaman, wanted to play a Jedi. This was not difficult at all, as he simply created a Mage adept and only picked those things that fit the Path of the Jedi. Of course, the character believed Lucas was a prophet and that his six 'testaments' were gospel. Stark. Raving. Mad. But he was fun to play with and we didn't have interminable arguments about the rules.

I agree that the psionic magician is a gimped type of character, but I don't think it should be changed to bring it up to the level of the other magical types. It is supposed to be gimped - the psionic has a set of beliefs that cripple his/her magic. It is an example of how some people can limit or cripple their power. Magic depends on belief, whether it is tied to religion, philosophy, or simply a scientific approach to figuring out how it "works". But some beliefs are too incompatible with the magic, and wind up giving the character severe limitations.


I don't have a problem with this, or with some of the more gimped Totems. Because, like Vision Magnification: 1 or 2, light pistols, and so on, it is there to represent the full range of abilities out there - not just the optimal ones. I think a PC who takes this IS gimping himself, but it's no different than taking a Colt L36 instead of a Morrissey Alta. The player has chosen to sacrifice playability for the sake of roleplaying. If overdone, this can result in a useless character - certainly the character will be disadvantaged compared to the other PCs. But while psionics are crippled, they are still playable. They have a decent selection of spells, some summoning ability, and astral projection.


The only time I have a problem with such players is when they create a character that they know will be weaker, then whine and complain about the power level of the other PCs. If you're going to create a mage/decker with Magic: 3 and Computer: 4, saying he was a street kid matrix ganger who got a lot of 'ware before he realized he was awakened, fine. Just don't complain when you see the ork combat mage casts a fireball that makes yours look like a Bic lighter, or when the albino gnome decker with a Math SPU: 3, Encephalon: 2, and a much better deck breezes through the ICE that dumped you out in one round.

The problem there is that a psionic doesn't have to be "gimped." They don't have to disbelieve in magic, and they don't have to be as limited as everyone else. It should have been presented as another tradition, just like everything else in that same chapter. But instead, they decided to clutch on one particular concept and then force all character concepts to follow that one even if its not appropriate.

A disbeleif in magic should be a crippling Flaw for a magician. It shouldn't be forced into their tradition. It's like forcing a Hermetic Mage to have Spirit Bane with all nature spirits, or forcing a Shaman to have Astral Impressions and Uneducated.

Like you yourself just admitted. A magician's magic is based on belief. Not all psionics disbelieve in magic. Well, at least they shouldn't have to since its not a fundamental aspect of the character concept, just the concept the rules try shoving down your throat. Again, just like how all dryads are basically forced to live in the woods, and all gnomes are forced to be shamans if Awakened. It's a throwback to the classes and races of D&D, not the style of character generation Shadowrun is supposed to encompass.

The version presented in the rules is the "gimped" version, but I don't think all psionics have to be morons who disbelieve in magic (or, more precisely, disbelieve in all magic that doesn't fit into a narrow mold, despite seeing such magic used by others - "Poor deluded chaps, with their silly misconceptions that allow them to do things that we are inable to do."). If you want a psionic who believes in magic but just explains it differently, I would use the rules for specific hermetic schools (pg. 17 of MITS).

Sure, you could do that. You could do the same for Wujen and Hougans, too. But what if you want a genuine tradition that isn't simply a variant of a Hermetic Mage. One who can astrally project but not summon elementals (even ignoring Conjuring doesn't help here). One who can create something similar to Thought Forms instead of Elementals or Nature Spirits (why, I have no idea, since they gimped them, too). If that's what you want, you're out of luck without having to create your own rules.

There's nothing wrong with people wanting to see a viable tradition for a psionic. It's an interesting possibility for a tradition, and one the rules completely fumbled in lieu of gimped rules and an essentially insane character type.

I don't think they fumbled, since a gimped tradition/magical oddity was the effect they were going for. They wanted to show how refusing to accept certain realities of how magic functions could hinder an awakened character's power.

I do agree that it seems kind of arbitrary. All of the Totems, for example. No aboriginal or Native American Totem that I know of has a tradition that includes the shaman being able to shoot lightning from his fingertips or any other showy effects; yet, shamans seem to adapt to how magic really works just fine. Why wouldn't a psionic be able to, since they would have less mental adjustments to make?

Heck, in a way, SR magic does function in a way very similar to how psychic powers are described. The mage simply concentrates to make the spell happen, and it is commonly accepted among magical theorists that things like fetishes and incantations are a mental crutch used to help channel the power. The hermetic view of conjuring also posits that spirits are created by the personality of the summoner.

I actually agree with Toy on this one.

I allow a great deal of flexibility in character creation, especially when it comes to magic. I heartily encourage players to create their traditions from scratch. It generally doesn't take any actual rule-bending to adapt an existing one, or mix rules in an interesting way.

I mean, if I wanted to play a psionic-style character, what I'd do is create a Hermetic mage, an Earth elementalist who gets a bonus for Control Manipulations. You can do that by-the-book, and have a decent Psionicist. If I were to strech things, I'd alter his bonus so he loses dice for Elemental spells instead of Detection, assign the +2 cross-tradition penalty, and give him Thought Forms instead of elementals.

In either case, we don't have that annoying penalty of not being able to Banish spirits despite being able to summon them, nor do we have the other problems. If the player decides to take those other limits as part of role play, that's perfectly cool with me-- I'd love to see it, in fact. (And I have, one player did restrict herself from learning any Health spells, purely due to roleplay.)

Characters like this are hardly unbalanced, and are equally as fun to roleplay as the "gimped" version in the books. If you're purely into the roleplay aspect, then you can *still* create a functional psionicist within canon-- and without the arbitrary and incomprehensible limits.

Easiest Best thing that I did for Psionics in my TT games. (though our group has none)

Psionics are Priority A and normal cost.

They recieve one huge major perk and I do mean huge in comparison to other traditions, and one lesser perk.

Major Bonus:
You don't need to maintain or even have LOS.

If you see the target once while astrally percieving, you lock onto their "Mental Pattern" and if he/she/it is in your area.
Magic rating X 5 Meters you can cast at them even if you can't see them anymore.
No modifiers for cover, or lighting. But background count applies, as psychic interference.


Lesser bonus : Magical defence, and wards only apply at half effectiveness against psychic attacks.

A force 4 ward that you're trying to cast through would only apply a +2 tn.
A mage/shaman with 6 dice on spell defense, can only roll 3.


All other rules apply. Psychics are still a little 'gimp'ed, but now they have a big bag of secret attack ability so Geeking the mage won't work right away.

Hmm. That just really seems like tipping it too much the other way. Maintaining I can see but I'd have to see how you handled the no LOS for targetting. That just sounds a bit dodgy from the get go. Not that it can't work, but how does it play out?

Don

It worked out great in one game. The 'target' was the leader of a cult, Rene Lesgardia. Cult of the Mind (COM) His whole stick was using mob mind controll on all of his 'subjects' and various emotional infulence spells. And yes he was french.

It really gave him the Professor X feel. Where he could affect you from no where and yet seem to be anywhere.

He used foreboding in a threatening whisper into their ears as the runners snuck around his compound.

Psychic Blasted (stunbolt) the Sammy when he -thought- of using explosives on the place. While Rene was sitting in his comfortable office on the top floor.

The Mage was getting really pissed so threw up his entire stable of elementals. They were blasted into nothingness by a Mass Disbelieve (Spirit Ball. Aka You do not exist, so begone from here type of thing) Even with spell defense the elementals got juiced. The Mage went astral and started to duke it out in astral combat straight up while the entire team had to fend off all the Fanatics acting out the last order placed in their minds of kill the intruders.

The team decided to be nice and only use gel rounds and non lethal hand to hand.


It really gave the psychic the fearful ability to attack from nowhere. But then again the entire compound was designed to be like an aspected mana site for him too.

For a Player you would have to deal with background count a whole lot more than Rene.

P.S. When they found out this guy was a psychic they really liked it and one of them claimed to want a psychic as his next character so he can be a mind flayer. (D&D fan) Yes and even with a Physical mask of being a squidhead.

I'm glad your game went so well, but if your psionic rules create an NPC who kicks all kinds of ass, then the PCs say "Cool! I wanna play a character like that who can kick ass!" - then, maybe it's not totally balanced, power-wise.

That's the trouble with house rules. The new stuff usually seems to end up being too powerful. At least your house rule is not as broken as the Physical Master rules.

To fix psionics, I would make them Priority B (Adept, 25 BP), give them 35 spell points at start and then use the published rules. So no foci, no banishing/controlling and restricted spell list.