Well come on guys lets have it. GURPS, D20 system, Shadowrun System or any others...

Who thinks what is best and why.

(though I do understand this is going to be an interesting argument due to where we are)

Whichever one serves the needs of the campaign and the group most appropriately.

Bam, thread over.

Bad Adam! What have we told you about using logic on this forum?

*MooCow gets out the rolled up newspaper*

You're really asking for the flames aren't you i mean come on we all know which one is the best and will flame others merciliously (poor spelling) to prove it.

The real question is what do you mean by "best"?

If it's best background, theme, and metaplot, it's probably SR.

HERO 5e fits into a lot of "best" categories as well. I mean, any rule book that gives an example for quite literally everything is worth using.

My personal favorites, though the answers vary with my mood...

Favorite Overall Concept: Changeling: the Dreaming
Favorite Overall Theme: Delta Green
Favorite Overall Rules: World of Darkness
Favorite Overall Gameplay: Shadowrun
Favorite Magic System: Toss up between Ars Magica and Mage, though Shadowrun is the best in a game that wasn't focused entirely on magic
Favorrite Overall Story and Background: Shadowrun
Favorite Set of "Simple" Rules: Tri-Stat
Favorite Set of "Not-So-Simple" Rules: Shadowrun

Somewhat biased, obviously, but I tried to be impartial.

Savage Worlds, which I run at the moment, is pretty tight as a rules system. I know of people trying to do a SR (fan) conversion at the moment. Based on the Great Rail Wars table top system. They just released Weird Wars: Vietnam under the title: Tour of Darkness. Decent rules; you really have to think tactically. It a toolkit game system that will also offer different settings, such as Weird Wars, Deadlands, Pirates, mutated poo, etc. Interesting and the game runs like its tagline: Fast, Furious, Fun.

Shadowrun is a great game, but to be honest, the rules are tied into the setting. The metaplot is great, by and large, while you can make any type of character with respects to the game environment in Shadowrun.

Don

OK then the answers have been interesting so far. Lets define things a bit:

• Best combat system
• Best Magic System
• Most customizable (from GM's point of view)
• Best Story Line
• Character creation
• Ongoing Character Development
• Learnability (how easy is the game to pick up)
• Any other reason why one system beats another.

Also lets supply reasons to back up your answers.

What's Fuzzy Heroes?

http://theminiaturespage.com/rules/mis/fuzzy.html

Seen it on the self in the store but never picked it up. Might do so now. It looks good. I wanna be a cyber Punk Bunny!!!

Keep in mind that in order to play a cyber punk bunny you have to have a cyber punk bunny stuffed animal.

Oh I seeeeeeeeeee! You use your actual stuffed toys to play!

That is cool! My six-month-old baby is basically in a good position to take over the world!!!

Exactly!

It makes a great game to play when you've been drinking. It's also a great "Baby's First RPG" game.

Another neat one is "Clay Fighters" or something like that. You create some kind of creature out of clay, then the GM determins it's attributes based on what it looks like. There are guidlines to help the GM make the determination. Fun game.

Did that get turned into a computer game?

It wasn't meant as a flame bait (must learn word choice again), just an illustration of how easy it is to fill in dots. Getting to know what to do is easy, plus the system can actually be quite elegant with trait + attr = dice pool. Game mechanics like that are usually a snap; the burden is on the GM to remember what goes together.

Character making is a bit customization, but once you've gotten the 7/5/3, 14/10/5, 5 or 7, plus that, add that, 15 freebie points, and you're done, it's a snap to make characters. For newbies....it might be a bit, especially if they're coming from D&D with random attribute assignments (one thing I will always loath in RPGs).

For newbies, then yes, you are correct. For experienced...simple concepts really. WoD is really rules light to a large extent.

Don

Personal preference from most standpoints is: WoD LARP rules.
Really quick to teach new players, you can 'roll up' NPCs in no time, and anyone is vulnerable to anyone else. Just because they're human and you're an elder, they could get a lucky hit on you if you're going toe to toe (or shooting).
Oh, and they have Lasombra... and Tremere.

SR I like for many reasons (though the original thing that attracted me to it was the matrix/decking aspect).

As for most in-depth background, Harn wins out. No real challenge. Many kingdoms fully mapped out (Ordnance Survey detail level), main crops of areas, weather, cultures, where to find different herbs, etc, etc, etc.

Call of Cthulhu and Paranoia get the rewards for best role-playing. Insanity, paranoia, and scapegoating, oh yes!

Better yet, combine the two. Knowledge of the Necronomicon is above your security clearance, citizen! Zap zap!

Beware the right angles! Oh my god, your gun has right angles! You must be some kind of demon-communist! Zap zap!

First Edition Legend of the Five Rings holds a place in my heart as a great RPG. Like all RPGs it has its flaws (unbalanced schools, initiative, etc), but the mechanics nonetheless flowed together. The D10 mechanic and raises was quick and simple. Combat was short but sweet (and deadly, just as I like it). The setting was one of the best I've seen full of all sorts of potential. Thankfully, some people I know have reworked it with rules from Seventh Seas and removing all its flaws to make it even better.

Well, I'de say that the best combat system goes to d20, same for learnability, its very simple. Best magic system I would say is shadowrun since theres no limit to the spells per day as with D&D and some others. Most customizeable would have to go to Exalted by white wolf. Unlike The Forgotten realms setting in D&D, they dont detail EVERY little thing, which gives you much more room to do some customization. (With so much info. I dont understand why they call it forgotten realms.)Storyline would have to be shadowrun for sheer consistency (spelling?). Character Development goes to SR and Exalted where you arent stifled by classes and stuff like with D&D and Rifts.

just my two cred.

Peace

Best combat system
- I suppose I'd have to say GURPS, it gives you an option of how complex you want to make things.

Best Magic System
- Mage. It largely depends on how much understanding the players have of the game, but since you can do litterally whatever you want, it's pretty good stuff. I like the lack of boundaries.

Most customizable (from GM's point of view)
- GURPS, no challenge.

Best Story Line
- Aeonverse (although it got a little murky with Adventure!)
- Shadowrun

Character creation
- Aberrant (Storyteller System), although it's slightly complicated, creating characters in Aberrant is fun because you are basically encouraged to come up with unique characters. My character with Immolate 2 and Quantum Bolt 3 could either have a nimbus of flame, and throw fire balls, or could have acid covering his skin, and spit cobra venom. Great stuff.

Ongoing Character Development
- Hard to say, the WoD games have a very steep curve, while Shadowrun and Gurps seem to have a much more shallow one. I suppose I'd go with the steep WoD curve.

Learnability (how easy is the game to pick up)
- White-Wolf

Any other reason why one system beats another.
- Not off hand.

This aught to be interesting, it seems I play a few games that havn't been mentioned yet!

Best combat system: Silhouette by Dream Pod 9, the entire system is very easy to learn even if you want it to be detailed (as far as martial arts and grappling). It's a skill based system, point buy character creation, and as of 03', it's a near-generic system.

Best Magic System: BESM or Tri-stat from Guardians of Order has to be the best for it's cutomization. You can literaly do anything with it! If you want a fire ball, you got a fire ball, if you want to make the ladies swoon with your amazing lute playing, bam, you got that too!

Most customizable (from GM's point of view): BESM again here, Posibly the simplest system ever(published). From creating magical (high tech.) weapons and armour to race and 'class' templates, it doesn't get much easier. However this is also a downfall. Unless you get a few setting books (Uresia(fantasy), Cute, Cockfighting, Seisure Monster, Big Ears-Small Mouse) you have to do all the work yourself, wich can be a bit stresful. Though taking things from other modules or campaign books is simple enough.

Best Story Line: I'm going to have to go with Tribe 8 by Dream Pod 9. It's a setting that has had such a huge impact on me and what I have picked up sinse (including Shadowrun). It's a Post-Apocalyptic Tribal setting based around the Montreal area (called Vimary, in Tribe 8 ). Peoples fears and hatred start manifesting into physical beings called Z'bri and begin to rampage around the world, pooling humans into large 'camps' and bathing themselves in the flesh and blood. Eventualy the 'Mother Goddess' sends her children to teach the humans how to combat the Z'bri and live after the time of the Camps. I could go on and on!

Character creation: I know I seem a bit biased here in this post but I'm going to have to say Sillhouette again. If your really into creating a character, and not just crunching a bunch of numbers together, Sillhouette offers a great system with plenty of examples. Shadowrun is a close second, however, I'm not too sure I have had so many ideas come to me when creating a character before Shadowrun, but thats primarily because of the setting.

Ongoing Character Development: Probably Little Fears here, being able to watch a character physicaly and emotionaly grow is wonderful and Little Fears gives that to you upclose and personal (considering most players start at age 7).

Learnability (how easy is the game to pick up): I don't believe i've ever had trouble with picking up any game really, besides maybe White Wolf games, but I believe thats based moreso on the layout of their books. I think my favorite game to teach to people is Palladium. Palladium anything, TMNT, Robotech, RIFTS, Fantasy...it's all great and very simply detailed.

Any other reason why one system beats another: It really is up to the game, I think. Some systems just work better for certain people or certain genres. I would use BESM over SiliCore to play a giant mecha game anyday (well, actualy i'd probably strugle through Silicore untill I could use it instead).

Tyrae ~ Fallen Child of Magdalen ( from Tribe 8 )

VICTORY NOT VENGEANCE

I wanted to list a few games I play as well, obviously all the ones above, including:
Heavy Gear (rpg and miniatures), Mechanical Dream, Confrontation (miniatures), Iron/Jadeclaw, Gear Craig (rpg and miniatures), Wraith: The Oblivion (proud owner of ever book printed for Wraith (yes, including Spectres!)), Changeling: The Dreaming, and quite a few others, if I think of them i'll type them up.

in all this, not a single mention for earthdawn as the best magic system. i am truly disappointed.

although, i am very biased on that topic.

thankfully though, no one posted anything (that i saw) from D&D as best anything, though i would forgive people claiming Planescape for atmosphere.

Shew, yeah, Planescape...good frickin night. The artwork was absolutly briliant and though I don't know much about the setting. When I was younger those books certainly had an influence on my style today!

Tyrae ~ Fallen Child of Magdalite

VICTORY NOT VENGEANCE

Best Combat System: I actually like SR's. Alot more deadly then D20 combat (typically), a close second would be old D6 Star Wars. It was pretty simple, but deadly and very quick.

Best Magic System: Shadowrun or Runequest

Most customizable: Palladium or GURPS stuff. You can find a book on anything, anything at all.

Best Story Line:SR (with the exception of the early NAN stuff, just too unbelievable for me). Dark Sun was also always one of my favorites.

Character creation: Hmm. I like a bunch, and none sticks out above the rest much for me. AD&D, D&D, SR, MechWarrior, Star Wars D6

Ongoing Character Development:Personally, I feel this is a reflection of the way the game is run and the DM/players, not the system.

Learnability (how easy is the game to pick up):It sure isn't SR. I'd say Marvel Super Heros (the old dice-based one) or D6 Star Wars.

Any other reason why one system beats another:SR for it's coolness factor. I still love just reading the damn books. Star Wars for it being Star Wars and being the main game I played first in my youth. AD&D because of all the good times with the gang.

IMOHO

Best/Favourite System/Mechanic - HERO System (Conversions galore)
Best/Favourite Setting - Shadowrun: 2050-2064 (14yrs of goodness)
Best/Favourite Genre - Modern Espionage/Near Future (Shadowrun's got it)
Best/Favourite Board Game - Battletech: 3025-3039

Cheers

QM

a lot of people seem to like a product called "Mage" and i would like to learn more about it. However, i am not finding anything online by that title, so i am thinking that it might not be the full title.

could somebody post a relivent link ?

Mage: The Ascension is a game by White-Wolf Game Studios. There is one slight problem, Mage is a game from the World of Darkness and the World of Darkness is discontinued. You can still probubly find Mage 3rd Edition on Amazon or Stiggybaby.com and a new version of Mage should come out in 2005.

Favorite setting: Shadowrun
Favorite Genere: Action Movie/Anime (Feng Shui/HKAT/BESM)
Favorite Systems:

Top 5

• Feng Shui
• Tri-Stat
• Shadowrun
• d20 Spycraft
• GURPS

Games I really want to try:

• The WWF RPG
• Street Fighter Storytelling game (which I'm bidding on on E-Bay)

thank you for the prompt information about Mage, Maxxi and Erebus
it sounds like a interesting game

I really have only invested significantly in three systems: Shadowrun, Star Wars d6, and D&D. I've also played CP2020, and a very little bit of Deadlands and LOTR (I.C.E). Of these, D&D 3.X has by far the most durable and dependable rules set. Shadowrun's is pretty functional, but advancement and game balance aren't all that they could be. D6's rules were very thin, but surprisingly usable.

I can't even count D&D as a game universe, because I almost always run homebrew. But Shadowrun's setting is still a favorite of mine. I have almost as much affection for West End's Star Wars setting, even though (or perhaps because) it drifts from what the overall Star Wars universe is today.

When I played CP2020, my impression was that it was a shoddy rules system. That was years ago however, and I can't make that call for certain. I did appreciate the punk atmosphere of CP2020, but for whatever reason, the games I played with other people devolved into just wandering around Night City and causing mayhem, not unlike free-form Grand Theft Auto. Amusing for awhile, but very limited.

I could just never get into the Rolemaster-light Lord of the Rings setting, and unfortunately I've never had opportunity to play Deadlands.

I never much liked CP2020, the setting seemed too generic cyberpunk. Besides that, looking at all Cyberpunk now seems more like a time capsule to the past. It's interesting how bionics is a new field, but our communication technology is 20 years ahead. It seems odd to go to a data terminal on a street corner when you'd normally expect your PDA with web access to have that function.

DEADLANDS, DEADLANDS, DEADLANDS, DEADLANDS!! Seriously, this game has it all. The best part has to be character advancement and the games reliance on props. You actually play out the iniative rounds using a deck of cards. Also, almost all the magic relies on the random draw of a deck of cards which has to be the most original magic system I've ever played. I highly recomend this one but avoid the D20 version like the plague. The Black plague. At its very worst.

What's the name of that kid's show about the Christian Superhero? The one that's like Spider Man meets Billy Graham? They should make an RPG out of that.

I have an odd facination with Earthdawn. Sure the rules were a bit clunky, but I've had a blast with that setting.

Best Magic system: Shadowrun, so very customizable.

Best Combat system that includes firearms: Shadowrun

Best Combat system that doesn't include firearms: D20

Best to bring in new blood: D20

Best setting: Iron Kingdoms by Privateer Press, a D20 setting with a steampunk feel, or as they like to call it, Full Metal Fantasy

Best storyline to date: Shadowrun, but they may be in danger of being eclipsed by Iron Kingdoms

Best overall feel: Shadowrun

Best advancement: Shadowrun

Most versatile from GM view: BESM or Tri-stat

There is my .02