When I read the Companion a while back I got a shock when I came to the table about suggested payments for runs. When comparing those values with the kind of cash I throw at my players then I usually times that amount by 5 to 10!

Is this common or should shadowrunner really be kept that down on their luck concerning cash?

Can I be first to say that it depends on the kind of campaign you're trying to run? (need sarcasm tag). Honestly though there is a table in the CC that gives pay levels? Well bugger me and call me a chicken, I wish I'd known that was there.

I think if there is one, it's in the Shadowrun Companion 3rd Ed, not in Cannon Companion...

Just don't let your players see the book or they'll get uppity. And if they ever whine about how you're holding back money from them, simply promise you'll do it by the book.

Actually the figures in the SRComp are stated to be for low-end runs. It is also stated that the pay should be the average of 1 month's cost of living for the runners together with the cost of gear used on the run.

I dont know if I was confussing people ...

I meant I was paying 10 to 20 times the amount suggested

If the book suggested 2000, I would probably have payed 40000 or more ....

Then again my players STILL whine about having too little cash so maybe it is balanced

There are plenty of realisitc ways to siphon money off your characters. But the pay should be balanced against whatever else they could be doing (then adjusted for the risk). If Mr rigger can pull down 5-10K a month stealing cars and selling them for parts (with no real risks for someone of his skill level) then a job where be seriously risks being ventilated should pay a lot more than that.

I would expect that most starting characters should be able to make between 20 to 40K a month while running (barring any serious accidents), otherwise just steal cars (or whatever safer activity you have lined up)

I typically pay somewhere in the vicinity of 7k to 20k per runner, less for particularly low-risk or low-strain runs, more for particularly expensive (in required materials) or high-risk. I'll also allow them to negotiate more up-front while reducing the total amount (for instance, 15k up front and 60k afterwards can be negotiated to 30k up front and 30k after).

~J

I agree with Crusher Bob. Generally runners have exceptional skills in specilised areas, so if the players could make the same or more cash from doing something nowhere nearly as risky as running then I'm simply not being realistic as a GM. I typically pay in the 10K range for the first few runs and then a general standard of 20K per run after that. I lash out 50K for the really hazardous not-all-of-you-may-make-it-back-alive runs, and more for things that are even hairier. Paying small amounts of money in a standard-powered game is rediculous - I know from experience that it just leads to bored or frustrated players, or otherwise creative players finding ways other than running to earn serious cash. I have a tacit understanding with my players - I pay something that is actually some use in equipment acquisition/character advancement terms, and they don't go off the map too often in terms of following scheduled runs.

i usually pay 20k and up for everything. but half of the time most of the team doesn't live to spend it.

My one team of players would kill each other for 60,000.
Now, I think I'll try that - either it will kill them or make them stronger together.

My runs usually are about 10,000 - a little more if riskier, less if easier.
And there is loot, although they have died few times for being too greedy, looting even coffe-making machines and taking their time. Now they loot much less, only something valuable if stumble upon it.

I guess it depends on the character and their costs. I got an aspected mage who has basic monthly expenses (not including injury or special expenses) of 13,500 nuyen a month, compared to my physad who gets by on around 2,500 a month.

That only works if the characters have a lot of backstory together. What does the Adept get out of this?

~J

Comfort in the knowledge that a friendly mage has his back?

I've tended to use movies as references for payouts. In the movies where the main characters are hired to do something/kill someone/break into somewhere, the payout for the gig is at least a few hundred thousand.

It seems a bit off for this scenario to be commonplace: (A bit of metagame language used)

Hey, I'd like to hire your capable group of runners to steal this prototype <x> from <Z> corp. <Z> corp's facility is well defended, since I got a copy Corp Security and, well, got a little crazy slapping defenses together. Yeah, its also unsaid that said prototype would allow the group I'm fixing this run for to make millions, hell, billions of nuyen off of. And...I'm going to pay you.....oh, 35k. EACH. Isn't that alot?

True for Kagetenshi's point. I admit I'd be inclined to start that way if I were GMing a Johnson. Start in at about 40% of what I was authorized to pay, then make it seem like I"m cutting the runners a deal when I up it to say, 60-70%. My Johnson still ends up 'saving' and likely keeping as a bonus, the other 30 to 40% left over

Still, I feel runs need to be competitive with other lifestyle choices (no, not that kinda lifestyle choice) available to runners. It'd be probably easier for runners to become pure criminals, selling drugs and BTLs, and get paid better, than some of the run offers they get.


Edit: Shoot forgot to add.

In SR it seems a little different too, perhaps in the beginning a Johnson is hiring a batch of nobodies. But the game also seems to incorporate, at least in the later portions of a groups game, that SR teams are established and have a good 'word of mouth' or resume going. Unless you're hiring the team as decoys or throwaways, the Johnson is probably hiring the group because he/she sees the odds of the succeeding being more than the odds of them screwing it up.

Kinda a variation on the "You get what you pay for". You pay chump change, you get lowbies. You want premium grade, you have to put a little more effort into offering a competitive price.

I gave up on the "established" prices Shadowrun uses a long time ago. They're just not believable to me. But then again, a lot of the way business is handled in the shadows seems poorly thought out to me, too.

I'd advocate ignoring what Shadowrun has to say on the subject and go with what makes sense to you. How much would you need to be paid to perform any given task? Would you agree that a piddly 5,000 nuyen (not even enough to buy a crappy car) was enough for the risks inherent to the possibility of killing six guards and kidnapping a scientist from a secure facility? Pfft.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting rock-bottom prices. Just because a job will potentially net a corp 1,200,000 nuyen, though, doesn't mean that they're going to be offering 150,000.

~J

My runners usually get paid about 15-20k per run just so they don't all go and get day jobs instead. After negotiations it usually ends up being 20-25k (I don't bother with the percentages I just let my players choose their price and adjust the modifiers for negotiation, they get it or they get something in between). Also, I usually pay the team in a lump sum (4 runners get 60-80k total to divide), does anyone else do this?

I usually try to incorporate a bonus into every run to keep my players on their feet and thinking (i.e. "while your in the building, if you can find so and so and bring it/them wherever, I'll throw in a/an whatever/extra nuyen)

If they are doing a hard job that requires absolute stealth, they will usually get paid quite a bit more.

Here's a link to earlier discussion of this topic.

Here's what I posted then:

Ah, the inevitable discussion on payment for runs....

A GM should always consider the character's motivations. Odds are if they're doing it for the money, they'd be better off stealing cars or some such. That's part of the reason I though the SC guidelines on payment were a bit scewed...

Are some of these supposed to be payments for runs? I think our team might spend more on fuel for the rigger and the "mission accomplished" steak dinners.

If that's all Johnsons paid, we could make a much better living stealing cars and mugging gangbangers... 1K per person per run is not exactly tempting to a group of people with a couple of million invested in cyberware and equipment...

Aren't you worried about those cars getting traced back to you? Always stay as clean as possible, which is exactly why killing guys and taking their stuff is almost always magnificently unprofessional.

Oh bull. If they haven't thought about it before (and we have) then they probably won't be the type to be worrying anyway.

~J

Only a fool willingly attracts more attention when his life affords more than enough as it is.

It could be worse. They could be bragging on the street about how easily they could score some nuclear material and build a bomb. I'd say that's more foolish and stupid than ditching your escape car at a junkyard or selling it to some other sucker who'll strip it down, chop it up, and sell it in a foreign country.

But I guess leaving it sitting in a parking lot is a better idea. Only a fool would do otherwise, eh?

Arrange a little run to the old Pantex facility in what used to be texas, have a buddy who's 'good with tools' build a housing for the weapon, sell the new toy to <insert terror group name here>

-More money than you'll ever make in one run. If you survive the backlash afterwards

Of course that's more foolish. But simply because stupider acts exist doesn't make a stupid act any less so.

But the fact that selling goods you happen to have picked up makes perfect sense and is, in the case of something like a car, probably safer (it's going to be thoroughly worked over to make sure the shop doesn't catch hell, which will probably destroy more evidence than we could have taken care of on-scene) means that this isn't a stupid act. Quite the opposite.

Grabbing everything you can lay your hands on is stupid. Taking stuff to sell isn't, as long as you can be sure you aren't taking the wrong things (here's that element of risk).

~J

Everytime you fence something you are increasing the chance of getting caught by law enforcement. It is not worth the three hundred nuyen you get for taking the guards cyber eyes.

It is plain stupid all these people who are loot monkeys in Shadowrun. You will get caught.

Now you can be Uber careful and drop a timed Willie Pete grenade in your car when you leave it, that is what I do. I also have my guys change out their barrels and melt dow the old ones. Or in the case of non customized pistols, a bag, some weight and the puget sound. Let the salt do the work for you.

Except that runners aren't (generally) the members of a black-ops squad, where operational security and deniability are number one, and gear is something you recquisition from the company as needed.

And passing up 20,000 because you're worried about a car getting traced (provided you know what you're doing as far as fencing stuff goes) when you regularly do things that are a hell of a lot more risky and don't pay all that much more just doesn't make sense - at least as long as you're a career criminal, not a superspy.

A fellow PC once made a "chop shop" for recovered cyberware. He really got into it, he bought the proper medical facilities, had the proper skills, and developed appropriate contacts.

Pretty soon he retired the character so that said character could take on the job full-time.