I'm trying to resolve a question which came up recently with regards to small throwing weaopns recently. On p. 107 of SR3, it indicates that:

Hmm... never dealt with someone trying that. I'd at least see what happens when you let them BF with throwing knives. It might actually let them do damage. Also, there's the style aspect of using shuriken for suppressive fire.

I say allow it for a trial period with the condition that if it ever becomes game breaking, you will switch to the 1 projectile per action reading.

My only concern is if the PCs get aerodynamic microgrenades.

If you wanted to you could have them pick up the ninjitsu skill and buy a manuever called multi-throw (or something similar, i made it up just now) that lets them throw shuriken in "burst fire" just apply a +3 to the target.

Samurai and Ninja were known to be able to throw 9 shuriken (Throwing darts) in rapid succession, having them all in the air before the first one hits the target.
The same goes for shaken (the round ones).

I've been wondering about this same question recently with a new char concept.

How would this apply to a phys-ad with quick-draw power and missile mastery?

Realism flatly ignored, the rules are clear: throwing is a simple action, but one half Quickness can be readied. Thus, if I have Quickness 8, I can hold 4 shuriken ready and throw them all in two Initiative Phases. Of course, no matter how quick you are, you will never thow them faster, and even with Quickness 1, you will be just as fast as a Quickness 10 Legendary Ninja— and if this sounds stupid to you, that's be cause it is. But that's nothing new. Anyway, once you've exhausted your supply of ready shuriken, you wuold have to expend another Simple Action to ready that same number again.

There are the tales of the three knives in one round adept. All it takes is most of your power points, an understanding GM, and a lovely volunteer from the audience.

Oh, pfft. I guess it's slightly unfair to say there's no difference, but it's not really ever going to be that significant. Very slightly hyperbolic semantics aside, point still stands that all the old ninja stories about throwing 9 shuriken before the first hits and all other related stories, true or false, have no bearing on how this functions per canon.

So, is that a yes or a no?

I'd suggest finding a more credible source than this single article. There are a number of respectable sources written by far more credible people with far less apparent personal investment in making fun of ninja, marines, and whoever else. That's not to say that the information presented here is incorrect, but a sin of omission by any other name...

The rules, to my knowledge, never really make a clear arbitration on akimbo throwing weapons, and while it's mostly a silyl concept, there are occasions where it makes sense. Ultimately, leave it up to the GM; personally, I'd say no in most cases.

Y'know, in LARP Werewolf we had a technique called Red Talon bowling...

Maybe I should introduce Dwarf Chucking to the SR Masses.

No Ready Weapon action needed

And those little buggers can carry an AR too

Ok so i may be missing something, but since you need the weapon to be ready before you can throw it, surely the master have quickness 10 spends less actions reading weapons thus does throw them faster.

Besides our numpty with quickness one, can't throw any knifes cos he can't ready any..........

Either that or it takes him a Complex Action rather than a Simple one as he fumbles it out of its holster.

Whereas the faster character is throwing twice as many. Complex Action = Two Simple Actions. All the Quickness 10 character needs to do is spend his Ready Weapon action pushing aside his longcoat to expose the bandoleer full of five grenades, line up five daggers in front of him, or any other number of similar things. From that point on he's throwing one item every Simple Action.

The character with Quickness 1 will have to spend a Simple Action to ready his one weapon (he's too clumsy or slow to take advantage of having them all lined up or in easy reach) and then spend another Simple Action to throw it. He's always throwing one item per initiative pass.

That said, let's now assume they both have Intelligence 6 and Wired Reflexes 2. Quickness 10 guy (Reaction 12, Initiative 3D6, average 22.5) rolled an average score on his Initiative Test, so he was able to throw all five of those weapons in the span of 3 seconds. Quickness 1 guy (Reaction 7, Initiative 3D6, average 17.5) faired worse as he only managed to get two weapons off in the same span of time.

Quickness 10 guy was throwing at more than twice the rate of fire of Quickness 1 guy. I dunno about you, but I'm pretty sure that means he was throwing significantly faster than the slower guy.

Of course, adding augmentation into the mix is sufficiently muddling. Purely off of the attribute (which is bizarre, considering it should be done off of skill), the rate of throwing is practically identical, even if there is some slight difference.

And if your GM rules that a Quickness 1 character can't ready a throwing weapon ever because 1 / 0 rounded down = 0, kick him in the head until he changes his mind.

Spoken like someone who doesn't actually play the game.

Unaugmented, Quickness 10 guy has an average initiative of 11.5. Unaugmented Quickness 1 guy has an average initiative of 6.5. In the span of three seconds, Quickness 10 guy is hurling three weapons (Ready 5 as one Simple Action and throw three in his remaining three Simple Actions) while Quickness 1 guy is hurling one (Simple Action to ready a single weapon, another Simple to throw it). Quickness 10 guy is now throwing three times as many weapons. And now Quickness 10 guy is going to throw two at the beginning of the next Combat Turn while Quickness 1 guy is still only going to be able to hurl one.

Practical rate of fire varies. I never disputed this. Regardless of attribute or skill, however, the number of projectiles loosed per simple action never varies. The old stories of 9 shuriken in the air may or may not (probably not; ninja were good, but they weren't silly) be true, but even verifiable feats are not going to modeled with SR's system, just as SR does a flatly awful job of simulating speed through skill with any normal human being (see firearms). Thus, my original point about ignoring such things when looking at these rules still stands. Anything else is propping straw filled targets.

You say tomato.

I'm still big into LRP and I use throwing blades with most of my characters. I have 2 blades in scabbards on each upper leg. As I use the "underarm" technique I can throw them accuractely straight from the scabbard. Did I "ready" them?

Do they always hit point-forwards?

~J

Mostly, nobody is perfect. Enough that I am confident to use them as a closing distance attack.

Bear in mind these ones are injection moulded foam weapons!!

I think, "more often than not" is a better interpretation than "most of the time".

Yes, it is difficult to hit with the point, I found that the "effective" range is dramically shorter than the distance at which I can accurately throw the knife. Although in LRP I use weighted foam, I learnt how to do this with real throwing knives into targets and have a nice scar on my leg when I got it very wrong.

As an aside to those who don't know, it is almost impossible to hit with the point when you throw a knife designed to be wielded. A throwing blade has little or no hilt and is balanced towards the tip.

Do you have a suggestion for a quick draw thrown weapon with which to replace these? Not, shuriken, I have a irrational dislike for them and have yet to be convinced they're anything but a nuisance weapon unless poisoned.

Depends on the shuriken. The four-pointed stars with nice, long points are actually meant to do damage, the others are poison delivery systems. Well, the spikes are also damaging, but they have the same problem as knives.

Maybe some of those throwing axes that have bladed surfaces in pretty much every direction along one plane?

~J

Hurlbats

But what should the damage be?

Those hurlbats are pretty to look at, but which bit do you hold to throw them? From what I know of lobbing axes you wouldn't be able to quickdraw them. The reason for the knives is to hit someone at 20 paces with ONE movement of my arm. As I can throw equally well with both hands, "more often than not" is enough when you throw 2.

I would say one weapon, pr. hand, pr. simple action.
So an ambidextrous adept with quickness 8 and quick draw, could:
Free action: ready 4 throwing weapons
1. Simple action: throw one weapon with each hand
2. Simple action: again, throw 2 weapon, one with each hand- since they ready too.

The non-adept would have to:
1. simple action: Ready 1 or 2 throwing weapons.
2. throw the throwing weapon (2 if your are ambidextros or don't care about penalties)
Free action: Find something else to do...

If you'd like another source of the ninja and samurai mythos, check out the homepage for the dojo I study at:

www.mbdojo.com

Off the radial menu, the history link provides lots of useful information, with a link to even more.

It's as accurate as any I've seen, and skips the BS of "legendary ninja powers".

Arethusa appears to be ignoring the fact that a Simple Action is not a measurement of time. it's a measure of the complexity involved in performing a certain action--hence Simple and Complex. faster people perform tasks more quickly, and are therefore able accomplish more tasks in a shorter amount of time. throwing a shuriken--an easy task, or Simple Action--can be completed more quickly by a fast person; ergo, faster people throw weapons with a higher rate of fire.

Sometimes I just wish that game systems actually understood ambidexterity correctly. Oh well no point in upsetting the game mechanics.

Schitzophrenia does not equal Multiple Personality disorder.

Psychotic does not equal violent

The hairs on the back of Botch's hands whisper

Be a man, grow a beard, buy a truck. Be a man, grow a beard, buy a truck.

~J