Full Version: Extra Passenger
Okay, I'm going as straight from the corebook as possible for this question; though any additional sourcebooks are fine for an answer. If you have a motorcylce, like the Harley Davidson Scorpion, it has a seating capacity of 2. You can use the second seat as additonal cargo without complication. If you are on a Rapier though, it has a seating capacity of 1. Can a second rider jump on the back? How much cargo space is used in doing such, if it's possible? What modifiers are added in such a situation? Are the vehicle's capabilities (speed/handling/etc) reduced? (Basically, can and what would happen if a second or third passenger got on a motorcycle in Shadowrun?)
Sure can. No Cargo Space is taken up (since they're basically clinging onto the vehicle), but they take up Load... and for a Yamaha Rapier, that's 40 kilograms. As comparison, a normal dwarf weighs 54 kilos.
I can't remember if the core rulebook has rules for going over the normal Load capacity for the vehicle, but I'm pretty sure in Rigger 3 its possible but incurs Stress Points.
I can't remember if the core rulebook has rules for going over the normal Load capacity for the vehicle, but I'm pretty sure in Rigger 3 its possible but incurs Stress Points.
Thanks for the quick reply! Yeah, I figured as much. What about the driving reaction TNs. Do they increase any? I figured with a clinging/wailing passenger they might but wasn't sure.
BBB has rules about overloading vehicles. I think speed suffers (dont have books near me) and possibly handling. Not sure.
But just because ur extra load says 40kg (example) doesnt mean u can as easily carry 10 babies each weighting 5 kilos as you would a dwarf of 50 kilos.
I would add GM Factors
into play. like is the passenger holding on normally or is he seriously clinging onto the jacket of the driver?
is he firmly seated or will he jump off on the next speed bump? if so then if also clinging onto the driver this would result in adding further modifiers to the driver's roll. If the pasanger doesnt care if he/she/it falls off then disregard the modifier to the driver as he also doesnt care to NOT drive over speed bumps with higher speed(40km/hr plus).
If a troll is clinging in said fashion or sizewise the passenger is bigger than the drivr than i would double the penalties as having a troll fall off the back of ur bike while clinging on u is definitely gonna require some serious focus on the driver's part.
But i guess trolls weight is gona do its job not allowing the bike to go any fast (speed hampering when overloaded) so i guess its gona depend on the situations the bike and the said driver are forced to make driving/clinging role.
Also make the passenger roll Athletics for clinging purposes cause maybe he had lost his grip on that last speed bump or something. It is also good for fun ingame to break motonous 'driving' rolls. having ur pasenger fall off will surely be remembered longer by the gaming group than 10 consecutive high TN driving rolls alone.
But just because ur extra load says 40kg (example) doesnt mean u can as easily carry 10 babies each weighting 5 kilos as you would a dwarf of 50 kilos.
I would add GM Factors
into play. like is the passenger holding on normally or is he seriously clinging onto the jacket of the driver?is he firmly seated or will he jump off on the next speed bump? if so then if also clinging onto the driver this would result in adding further modifiers to the driver's roll. If the pasanger doesnt care if he/she/it falls off then disregard the modifier to the driver as he also doesnt care to NOT drive over speed bumps with higher speed(40km/hr plus).
If a troll is clinging in said fashion or sizewise the passenger is bigger than the drivr than i would double the penalties as having a troll fall off the back of ur bike while clinging on u is definitely gonna require some serious focus on the driver's part.
But i guess trolls weight is gona do its job not allowing the bike to go any fast (speed hampering when overloaded) so i guess its gona depend on the situations the bike and the said driver are forced to make driving/clinging role.
Also make the passenger roll Athletics for clinging purposes cause maybe he had lost his grip on that last speed bump or something. It is also good for fun ingame to break motonous 'driving' rolls. having ur pasenger fall off will surely be remembered longer by the gaming group than 10 consecutive high TN driving rolls
alone.
Cool. I knew it'd be somewhere. Thanks a lot.
This thread prompted a question. It was mentioned that a Yamaha Rapier has a Load of 40 kg. Does the bike have a weight restriction for the driver? After all a human and a dwarf together don't mass as much as a single troll. So does the troll still have a Load of 40kg? Can the troll even ride the bike?
| QUOTE |
| Does the bike have a weight restriction for the driver? After all a human and a dwarf together don't mass as much as a single troll. |
I can't remember seeing a weight restriction for bikes in SR. IRL bikes have a max. limit for the riders over which the handling and acc./dec. are cocked. From experience they are about:
Small engine bikes - 1seat = 95kilos, 2seat = 125kilos
Mid size - 1seat = 145kilos, 2seat = 160kilos
Big bikes - 180-200kilos
| QUOTE |
| So does the troll still have a Load of 40kg? Can the troll even ride the bike? |
Depends on what your trolls weigh. If you use the >=200kg, yes they could ride it with just the minor troll mods associated, if you use the 500kg alternative weights than there is only the Honda Viking option.
| QUOTE (Quix) |
| This thread prompted a question. It was mentioned that a Yamaha Rapier has a Load of 40 kg. Does the bike have a weight restriction for the driver? After all a human and a dwarf together don't mass as much as a single troll. So does the troll still have a Load of 40kg? Can the troll even ride the bike? |
thats where metahuman mods come in.(BBB page...hmm..somewhere)
trolls mods are what at chargen? 1.25xBase Price? (dont have book handy) thats just to get the troll mods for the bike, the reinforceed seat and all the other needed mods...
or if bike already standard or other non-troll and ingame (As suposed to chargen) then u gotta find a mechanic to get ur bike modified for trolls...costly..but better that than +3 TN modifier on all driving rolls...
As for the driver weight restriction. I dont think there is. Bench seats are equivalent of 150kilos(?? i think) of load and bucket are 100 so i guess normal people can sit in them normally..unless ur runner is some really obese person who needs to go into vehicle's load to compensate for the extra weight...
as for trolls i think the troll modifications allow for more weight per bucket/bench seat...dont have rigger 3 nearby so cant tell for sure...
I always assumed that bikes with seating of only 1 looked something like this. No room, let alone load, for a passenger.
Yes, the picture of the Rapier in the BBB shows a much longer seat, but when you consider rider ergos, the front of that seat is waaaay too close to the handlebars for it to work as a 2 person bike.
Yes, the picture of the Rapier in the BBB shows a much longer seat, but when you consider rider ergos, the front of that seat is waaaay too close to the handlebars for it to work as a 2 person bike.
| QUOTE (Fonitrus) |
| trolls mods are what at chargen? 1.25xBase Price? (dont have book handy) thats just to get the troll mods for the bike, the reinforceed seat and all the other needed mods... as for trolls i think the troll modifications allow for more weight per bucket/bench seat...dont have rigger 3 nearby so cant tell for sure... |
Rigger 3 does have all the rules for customising 4+ wheeled vehicles. Applying the rules to 2 wheeled vehicles is just plain cocked.
I used to ride a 1976 Honda 125S
www.ebbo.org/old-bikes.html
I weigh 110kgs and stand 190cms tall. This bike laughably has a pillion seat and a max weight limit of 125kgs. When my girlfriend rides it (5'1"&50kgs), it goes 70mph. To sit comfortably I have to sit on the back of the pillion seat and can only manage 45-50mph. If I don't lean fully forwards when I start off the bike will wheely with almost no power applied, 'cos my arse is behind the top of the rear suspension.
The rules as they stand could be used for troll modified bikes, but realistically the only original parts left would be the lights, tyres and licence plate.
| QUOTE |
| This thread prompted a question. It was mentioned that a Yamaha Rapier has a Load of 40 kg. Does the bike have a weight restriction for the driver? After all a human and a dwarf together don't mass as much as a single troll. So does the troll still have a Load of 40kg? Can the troll even ride the bike? |
Rigger 3 does address this.
Seats come in two varieties - Bench and Bucket. A bench seat can be normal or reinforced as can a bucket seat.
Max weight for a standard bucket seat: 100 kgs
Max weight for a standard bench seat: 200 kgs
Max weight for a reinforced bucket seat is 250 kgs
Max weight for a reinforced bench seat is 300 kgs
For REALLY heavy bastards, super-reinforced bucket seats are also available. They start as standard bucket seats but cost 100 more nuyen per 25 kgs they hold.
Costs -
Standard bucket: 700
Standard bench: 750
Reinforced bucket: 1,500+100 per 25 kgs above 250
Reinforced bench: 1,500
All motorcycle seats are bucket seats.
You need to remember something - The rules for how seats work in SR is stupid. See, they aren't designed to ever be empty. What they should have done is give us the weights for the seats themselves and the max weight they can safely hold. Then you just subtract from the Load of the vehicle the weight of anyone that happens to be in the car.
The way it works now is this: When you add a seat to a car, it immediately takes up as much Load as it can hypothetically hold. Example, if you install a bucket seat that is designed to hold 500 kgs, you immediately subtract 500 from the Load.
Edit: To be totally clear, the Load rating of a vehicle already assumes all of the seats will be filled. If your troll tries to fit in a seat that's too small for him, he gets a +2 TN to his resistance modifier during a crash test. He'll also ruin the seat for anyone else that tries to sit in it. If the (max weight of the seat)+(Load*2) is less than however much your troll weighs, no the bike can't move at all. Be sure to read THIS link regarding the height and weights of metahumans.
| QUOTE (Modesitt @ Aug 16 2004, 09:39 PM) |
| Be sure to read THIS link regarding the height and weights of metahumans. |
Don't use this link, please, without spotting the errors in the BC values. Look at the table at the bottom.
MALE FEMALE
Type of Build Adult Adolescent Adult Adolescent
Athletic (Muscled) .9 .9 .85 .85
Athletic (Bodybuilder) 1 .95 .95 .85
Sedentary .95 .85 .9 .8
Chunky 1 .95 .95 .9
Overweight 1.1 1 1.05 1
Fat 1.2+ 1.1+ 1.2+ 1.1+
A muscled teenager does not have the same muscle/fat/bone ratio as a fullt grown muscled adult and since when would a professional bodybuilder be only 5% heavier than the average office worker. My collegue Mo is 6 foot tall (average build) and weighs around 12stone, I am an inch or 2 taller and have a muscled build (and not very muscly at that), but currently weigh 17.5stone. That makes me over 30% heavier.
There are better sources for modified heights/weights than the mentioned page, ones that include the meta-type variants for example.
At the end of the day if you want to keep it simple you have 2 choices for trolls in SR either knock around 2 feet off their height or approximately double their weight.
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