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Digital Heroin
...but an Adept with a power foci has more points for powers, neh?
HolyYakker
You're Braindead.

I honestly don't know the answer to your question, but the subject heading was far to tempting for me to resist. Especially at 6am when I'm doped up on caffiene. I think I'm going to go chase the cat up a tree now.

wheeeeeeeeeee!
Moonwolf
No, he doesn't. Power foci only add to magic for the purposes of drain and maximum force of spirits.
Abstruse
The only focus a physical adept (yeah, 2nd Ed terms, I know...) can use is a Weapon Focus.

The Abstruse One
Ol' Scratch
Correction, the only foci an adept can use are Weapon Foci, Anchoring Foci (anyone can use one of those), and Centering Foci (if they know the technique). They can bond with just about any other type of focus, but it's useless to them unless they're Magician Adepts.
Cain
Slight correction-- they cannot *use* anchoring foci, but they can *activate* and carry ones that someone else bonded. You use an anchoring focus by casting a spell into it. You activate it when you turn on the spell.
mintcar
Moonwolf, power focus is usable for spell defence as well, no?
Cold-Dragon
A power focus can be used for virtually anything spell pool dice count for; it's like an extension.

However, being that Adepts don't have a spell pool I'm aware of, it's only good for increasing the magic attribute for ability boosts tests and such. (In theory, you could claim that it allows permits you to learn powers beyound the traditional 6 levels possible for some, but at that point you must either say the higher levels are null as long as it's off, or waste points doing it again and again).

edit: after reading up on foci again in my SR3 book, I have decided to alter my answer: the power focus is only good for enhancing your magic attribute for powers that use it for a test (or similar), for drain (if applicable), and possibly spell defense (no where thus far I've read stats you have to actually have the ability to 'defend' to use the dice).

and no where does it say a Adept can't use a Power Focus, with the exception of a weapon focus, however, it's the only focus that would have feasible use to them.

So this means that, if they can use it for spell defense, that a spell category focus would be possible to use too (but at the moment, eh, I'm sketchy on that).
Necro Tech
Actually, you must have the sorcey skill to use spell defense. Spell defense consists of putting aside sorcey dice (and an equal amount of pool) for the express purpose.
Cold-Dragon
Okay, no spell defense then. So at best you got it for drain resistance and upping your magic attribute.

It's roughly the same cost as getting a weapon focus, a little more if you get a biiiig boost.
Wireknight
I've created a slew of new foci/cyberware/etc... that I will be slowly but surely adding to my Shadowrun website in anticipation of bringing it live by mid-September. Since it's really just a compilation of things I've posted elsewhere and other peoples' ideas that I've gotten permission to reproduce, I don't see a problem in previewing one new focus type I created.

Somatic Focus
Bonding Cost: Force x 6 Good Karma
Monetary Cost: Force x 150,000 Nuyen
Availability: 10/14 Days
Game Effects:
The somatic focus adds its force rating to an adept's magic rating, as well as adding half its rating to the adept's power point total. The bonus power points provided by this focus may only be utilized toward powers that the adept already possesses. The adept may reassign the bonus power points provided by the focus as a simple action.

Notes:
In the event of a magician adept employing a both a power focus and a somatic focus, or a stacked power/somatic focus, the increase to magic rating is not cumulative, only the highest available bonus applies.
Jason Farlander
Adepts *can* learn sorcery - its just that they can only use it for astral combat. In that regard, theres nothing in the rules prohibiting an adept from bonding a power focus to get extra dice for astral combat tests. It's nowhere near worth the cost, but it's possible.
Thistledown
QUOTE (Wireknight)
I've created a slew of new foci/cyberware/etc... that I will be slowly but surely adding to my Shadowrun website in anticipation of bringing it live by mid-September.  Since it's really just a compilation of things I've posted elsewhere and other peoples' ideas that I've gotten permission to reproduce, I don't see a problem in previewing one new focus type I created.

Somatic Focus
Bonding Cost: Force x 6 Good Karma
Monetary Cost: Force x 150,000 Nuyen
Availability: 10/14 Days
Game Effects:
The somatic focus adds its force rating to an adept's magic rating, as well as adding half its rating to the adept's power point total.  The bonus power points provided by this focus may only be utilized toward powers that the adept already possesses.  The adept may reassign the bonus power points provided by the focus as a simple action.

Notes:
In the event of a magician adept employing a both a power focus and a somatic focus, or a stacked power/somatic focus, the increase to magic rating is not cumulative, only the highest available bonus applies.

Judging by the costs of other focuses, I think it's a way too expensive, escpecially the availability. And in order to be effective, it will have to be at force 2 to get a power point. I like the idea of it, but it needs some work.
mfb
right, force 2 for 1 pp. force 1 allows you to buy a level of pain resistance, or 2 levels of attribute boost, etcetera. the focus is more expensive because it gives a lot bigger boost than other foci.
GunnerJ
QUOTE (mfb @ Aug 26 2004, 01:17 AM)
the focus is more expensive because it gives a lot bigger boost than other foci.


Not really. Especially not if the adept's powers are such that they cannot be "improved" upon. Examples: maxed Improved Reflexes or Combat Sense, or things that don't have multiple levels like Quickdraw or Distance Strike. In those cases it is just as useful as a Power Focus, but about 50% more expensive.

An experiment: Convert the nuyen cost of a Force 2 somatic focus, which you say gives 1 PP, into karma (at nuyen.gif 5000 for one karma, as per SRC) and add the bonding cost: 72 karma. Tell me the adept wouldn't be better off just initiating or buying powers for 20 karma per PP.
mfb
not necessarily. the 5k per karma price is from MitS, if i'm not mistaken, and it's the cost a point of karma used to bond a focus--a fairly specific use. the SRC, i'm pretty sure, defines the nuyen cost of a point of karma as being variable, depending on the campaign.

initiating or buying PP doesn't allow you to reassign your powers on the fly. adepts are specialists--and an adept with a decently-rated somatic focus can be a "specialist" in every possible field, from shooter to melee-guy to sneaky dude to speedmeister to whatever, so long as his basic power list isn't too specialized. and, honestly? a rating 6 somatic focus is worth buying one level in a few diverse powers.
GunnerJ
QUOTE
the SRC, i'm pretty sure, defines the nuyen cost of a point of karma as being variable, depending on the campaign.


That it does can hardly be considered a point for or against you; in my games, it's 2k for 1 karma, so it'd be 162 karma blown for 1 PP worth of limited improvements.

QUOTE
initiating or buying PP doesn't allow you to reassign your powers on the fly.


Nor does it require that you only improve existing powers (which by default requires that your existing powers be "improvable.")

QUOTE
and, honestly? a rating 6 somatic focus is worth buying one level in a few diverse powers.


I question whether it is worth nearly a million nuyen.
mfb
you're an adept. what else are you going to spend it on? you don't need cyber, you don't need expensive ritual materials, and there are an extremely limited number of other foci types you can throw down your earth monies for.

and, tactically speaking, i'm fine with the karma argument being moot--it was a point for you, until i negated it with my superior martian logic.
Wireknight
QUOTE (GunnerJ)
Not really. Especially not if the adept's powers are such that they cannot be "improved" upon. Examples: maxed Improved Reflexes or Combat Sense, or things that don't have multiple levels like Quickdraw or Distance Strike. In those cases it is just as useful as a Power Focus, but about 50% more expensive.

That's why you don't get a somatic focus if those are the only sorts of abilities you have. Though, in minor defense of what would be a tremendous waste of karma for an adept with that complement of powers, it would increase the range of distance strike, which could be handy.
GunnerJ
QUOTE
you're an adept. what else are you going to spend it on?


Weapon Foci would be a signifigant and viable option in the price range we're considering.

QUOTE
and, tactically speaking, i'm fine with the karma argument being moot--it was a point for you, until i negated it with my superior martian logic.


Actually, it's still a very potent point for me in any game where the conversion rate is less than 15k for 1 Karma.

As it stands, what we have is a power focus with some very limited (but in some ways flexible) benefits for adepts. I'm not saying it isn't useful at all, just that there's no reason for it to have such a high cost. If it cost as much as a Power Focus, maybe a little less (since Power Foci grant garun-damn-teed bonuses to other magicians' skills, where as Somatic Foci only grant bonuses to some abilities), I wouldn't have a problem. The availability is still whack, tho.
Edward
Aria effect spells have the aria determined my magic attribute. I had assumed that a power focus would count for this.

I am not certain but I think that there where adept powers with variables based on magic attribute. Might a power focus be useful to aid these powers (assuming you payed for them with real magic points)

Wireknight’s proposed focus is very powerful. Dump the points into negotiation for the meet with the Johnson, stealth for the insertion, combat skills for the fight, athletics for the evacuation. Very easy to set up.

The power of this focus is not in its power but in its extreme flexibility (assuming you took your actual powers over wide basis)

I would say a variably positional power point is easily worth 5-10 fixed ones

Edward
GunnerJ
QUOTE
Wireknight’s proposed focus is very powerful. Dump the points into negotiation for the meet with the Johnson, stealth for the insertion, combat skills for the fight, athletics for the evacuation. Very easy to set up.


In theory, this makes sense. In practice it's somewhat more complicated.

We'll ignore, for now, the fact that negotiations can't be improved by any Adept powers by canon (and that I allow it for .5 PP per level). Let's look at the skills you suggest we variably increase:

Negotiations
Stealth
Athletics
Pistols (as an example)

In order for a somatic focus to provide the type of benefit you describe, he has to already have at least one level of Improved Skill for each. He laso can't have Imrpoved Skill maxed out w.r.t. the skill rating, otherwise assigning extra PP from the focus won't matter since the power cannot exceed the skill's rating. Let's assume that the adept has 5 in all skills and 3 levels of imrpovement for each (not unreasonable, this costs him 3.75 PP, 2.25 for the first three, and 1.5 for the last.) In order to get the maximum of the shifting benefits you describe, he he needs a Somatic Focus that can grant him an increase of 2 levels to any of these powers (any more than that would be wasted as his skills are 5 in each).

Things start to get complicated now. A Force 2 Somatic Focus will give 1 PP, which can raise Improved Pistols twice, but while it can raise the other Imrpoved Skills 4 times, only 2 increases count, so it's a bit of a waste. A Force 1 Somatic Focus can increase the first three Improved Skills twice, but Improved Pistols only once.

And he's not getting this at chargen one way or another, with that availability, so now he has to do enough runs to get between 150000 and 300000 nuyen (ignoring street index, which is not noted in Wire's description) and 6-12 karma (not too hard.) What he gets after this wiat is the ability to shift +2D6 around from one skill to another, or if he's straped for cash, +2D6 for his non-combat skills and +1D6 for his combat skill. Whoo-hoo. It's not bad, but the cost to benefit ratio seems a little out of line. He already has an 8 in all those skills, giving him a 10 or a 9 in variable circumstances seems like a neat party trick, if only he didn't have to spend so goddamn much on it. Especially when you consider that for a little more than 300000 nuyen, a mage could have gotten a Power Focus that gives +3D6 to his magical skill tests or to drain tests... and he could have gotten it at chargen.
mfb
it's not really the lower power levels that are the problem, here. it's the higher levels--100+ karma, or so; maybe even as low as 50, but that'd be a tough trick to pull off.
Cochise
QUOTE (Edward)
Aria effect spells have the aria determined my magic attribute. I had assumed that a power focus would count for this.


Nope ... power foci increase the magic attribute only when it comes to detemine drain type (physical or stun)

QUOTE
I am not certain but I think that there where adept powers with variables based on magic attribute.


Yes there are such powers (distance strike)

QUOTE
Might a power focus be useful to aid these powers (assuming you payed for them with real magic points)


Nope, since it would still only affect drain issues. The only power which causes drain is the attribute boost. However, since no adept power may exceed the adepts magic rating, he'll never face a situation where power > magic and thus he'll never face physical drain => no need for that power focus effect.


[edit] mixed up Threads ...[/edit]
Edward
Primarily in response to GunnerJ.

Rather than having 5 in the skill and 3 levels of improvement already take 5 in the skill and only 1 level of improvement in each skill that you will not need to use at the same time. (How often are you using any 2 of those skills without time for a simple action between? Booking from a firefight is the only one I can think of).

Now you could conceivably increase each skill by 4 with a rating 2 semantic focus (not pistols) also it allows you to take 3 skill and 1 level of improvement in all thos less often used skills and have 6 dice when you want it. (say launch weapons or manual gunnery or heavy weapons when your usually more subtle)

Edward
GunnerJ
That's great, as long as he's willing to wait around until he makes the 300000 nuyen and 12 karma he needs to buy the focus with such a spread-thin repitoire of skill increases. By the time he gets it, I'm sure the other players will have many more interesting ways to spend their money and karma that allow them to surpass this jack-of-all-trades (and really, it's only balance against other players that counts.)

I don't doubt that it can be useful for skill increases, if you're patient. But for other multi-level adept powers, maybe not so much. For example, to get the most out of something like Combat Sense or Sixth Sense with a Somatic Focus, you have to have the focus boosting them all the time... because surprise can happen at any time. And consider Improved Attributes: It's not feasible to shift the focus to boosting Body when you need to make a damage resitence test, and then Strength when you want to do a melee attack. In fact, if you're in melee, either one could be important depending on how the dice turn up.

Again, my point was never that this isn't usefu; It's just that it's so specifically useful, it's so specialized in its utility, when compared to the less expensive and more available Power Focus, that I think the price and avail. should be lowered.
mfb
why isn't it viable to switch powers in the middle of melee? it's a free action--what else are you going to be doing with your free actions in melee? called shots? hell, that's the main reason i'd want one--pump my Str by 4 when i hit someone, pump my Counterattack ability by 6 when it's his action.

12 karma and 300,000 nuyen isn't all that much. that's, what, one or two more skill levels? one stat boost? two or three spells? and 300,000's a decent chunk of change--just about, but not quite, enough to buy a force 3 weapon focus that gives you the equivalent of Improved Ability 3 and Imp Phys Att 3. meanwhile, the adept can gain 6 points of Stealth, or 3 points of Ass-Whoopin's, or 3 points of Pain Resistance, or a level of Combat Sense and a point of Strength, or...
GunnerJ
QUOTE
why isn't it viable to switch powers in the middle of melee? it's a free action


It is? OK, then, it's quite viable. I thought it was a simple action. That does speak for its power quite a bit. Still, if the melee test doesn't go your way, it'd have been nice to have your strength pumpup in Body.

I'm starting to come around to this idea more, but I still say that because it only helps powers that can take multiple levels, it somewhat constricts one's options when making an adept. Like, should I take the powers I want, or take a whole bunch of improvable powers so I can use an ability focus to shift around between them. I don't like the idea of learning adept powers to suit a focus, which would be encouraged by this.
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