I know how much the ammo weights (10 x normal weight for 100 rounds), but what does the empty belt itself weight?

After all a bloody clip weights .75, so the belt for belt fed ammo ought to weigh more.

Thanks!

Does anyone else houserule that the weight for any gun includes one standard clip and ammo as well?

most likely belts of tomorrow will be similar to belts of today, 2 interlinking parts that locks one bullet together with the ones on both sides. these links can be made of plastic, metal or any other material that can take the stresses. and personaly i dont think they will add mutch to the weight of the belt...

but then i have never fired or carryed beltfed ammo

what hobgoblin said. each bullet in a belt has a tiny metal clip snapped onto it; the clips lock together to form the links of the belt. the clips don't add much weight; a hundred of them might weigh as much as a few ounces, i'd guess offhand.

The 100-round non-disintegrating metal belt for 7.62x39mm M43 that the KK-62 uses weighed somewhere around 0.1-0.2kg, negligible in most cases. These things will only be getting lighter in the future with better materials.

Now of course you could choose to make belts weigh somewhere around 1kg per 100 rounds, just to make them in line with the other insanely high canon ammo (-related item) weights.

It dose seem a little strange that a clip always ways 750g.

They are specific to a type of gum and I assumed that one clip was included in the cost and weight of every gun that uses a clip.

The Morrissey Alta has a 5 round clip, the Morrissey elite holds a 12 round clip. Twice the sise for no extra weight. I can live with that but both weapons only way 1000g so the clip accounts for 3/4 of the mass of the weapon.

It gets worse when you consider light or holdout weapons. The cavalier scout has a 7 round clip and only ways 250g. Now if as I assumed this includes its clip if you eject the clip it has a mass of –500g. This materials technology will have interesting implications for the aerospace industry. If I am wrong and the mass listed dose not include a clip then it ways 1000g witch is a bit much for the pocket of an evening jacket.

Has anybody ever developed alternative weights for clips and ammunition based on type of weapon.

Edward

Austere, I've only read a little bit of the ammo section from the page you linked. Is that your page? If so, You sir, have my compliments. I wish that FASA had talked to someone like you (or anyone else who knows a thing or two about firearms and ammunition) before they made the rules the way they did.

I'm gonna add that site to my favs to be checked out later. Thanks.

that's Raygun's site. he's got good stuff, but be warned--it doesn't tend to mix well with canon stuff. you'll want to replace SR's firearms completely, not just throw in his.

One thing I forgot to mention.

Belted ammo, in any significant quantity (read: enough for a friendly firefight) weighs considerably more than the same amount of ammo in magazines. Those little steel links dont weight much individually, but the weight does add up.

Well, raygun has my compliments. BTW, Austere, ignore the PM I sent you.

Thanks.

I don't have any data on how much disintegrating links weigh (obviously, it depends on the caliber of the round they're designed to be used with and what they're made of), but the Army field manual for the M60 says a 100 round belt weighs 2.95 kg (6.5 lbs). According to COTW, the 7.62x51mm M80 round weighs 392 grains. 100 rounds of M80 weighs 5.6 pounds (2.54 kg).

2.95 - 2.54 = 0.41 kg = 0.9 lb / 100 = 63 grains (4 grams) per M13 link.

That seems a bit high to me, but I haven't seen an M13 link in several years at this point.

I think that sounds about right. If not, it might be a little on the low end.

I just remember they get real damn heavy when you've got a few hundred to a thousand of them in a crate from police calling a range. And that belted ammo for the SAW, even without the plastic drum, weighed quite a bit more than 5 boxes of ammo for our M16s. And that it REALLY sucked to have to carry ammo for the machinegunners.

Thanks to FM21-18 Foot Marches, the field manual provides the weights of selected items for load planning. Given are the weights of a single full loaded, 30 round magazine of 5.56mm NATO (0.9lbs) and the 200 rounds of linked 5.56mm NATO (7.6lbs). At 600 rounds in magazines and links, the weight comes down to 20 magazines weighing 18lbs total and 3 linked belts of 200 rounds weighing 22.8lbs. Evened out to 180 rounds (standard infantry load of 6 magazines), 6 magazines equals 5.4lbs, while 180 rounds linked weighs something like 6.8lbs.

Note: they don't mention if linked ammo is in ammo tins, but they do have a "case, small arms" weighing 0.9lbs, so it might actually be the weight of the belt itself.

Those are some really heavy belts. Maybe I was twice as strong in the military as I am now, because I could swear the 100-round KK-62 belt weighed less than this here full glass of water (~0.3kg).