Alright everyone, I'm new to this forum so be nice.

The thing is, not seeing it anywhere else (and being, new, probably not looking in the right place) I want to get some opinions on a major aspect of the SR game.

To whit: A couple of weeks ago, the group I'm in (And not the GM of) had a guy make a cabbie as a character. The hitch is he made him as a PhysAd. This touched off a whole side discussion (during the times when the people involved in the discussion were not active in the game) about his obvious shortcomings as a driver/pilot type and eventually, I made the statement that I felt that the rule disallowing reaction and initiative enhancements to count when driving/piloting a vehicle were quite the unfair load of {naughty}.

Hoo-boy! Did I get a lot of flack on that. I ended up having no less than three people argue with me about it for over a week (some raised voice incidents occurred) about how this was:

A) Way to cheesy and broken and Uber and overpowered etc.

B) Essentially the same as removing the Rigger Class/ making the same worthless.

C) Physically impossible.

Now my opinion is that, since driving relies heavily on reaction, (Heck, most of the pilot skills default to it as their attribute!) and that having a faster reaction time doesn't magically "poof" into nothingness just because you get behind the wheel, those characters that have enhanced Reactions/Initiatives be allowed to reap the full benefits of said enhancements behind the wheel. (I.E. extra actions, etc.)

Now before all you CheeseBusters™ out there descend upon me with your MunchBasher® auto rifles blazing. Consider these fun facts:

1) FanPro revised the ENTIRE magic/initiation system to resolve the "zero to lightspeed" problem. (It's in the "why we revised this system" part of MITS)

1a) As it currently stands, you go from Stupid-Slug the Pedestrian Meat-Sandwich Guy© without a VCR to Vortrack The Vehicle God© with one. And if they REWROTE the magic system to eliminate this, then why not do the same for driving?

2) Riggers are gods of the asphalt (and they should rightly be so! ) and this change would not remove them from their lofty Olympus. This is because:

2a) Riggers get Initiative and Reaction bonuses in vehicles.(Right now, NO ONE ELSE DOES! Period! At all! Ever!)

2b) Riggers get a Pool Specifically Devoted to driving (Control Pool) which allows them to effectively DOUBLE the amount of dice they roll for any vehicle test they make. (Within the logical limits of the pool system of course) No one else can do this, either. (And yes boys and girls, Combat Pool does you NO GOOD when driving, with the exception of resisting damage.)

2c) In addition to all of the above, Riggers reduce all pilot/driving/maneuver target numbers by an amount equal to TWO TIMES their VCR rating. (meaning a really bad TN [we'll say, 8] is reduced to a 6 with only a VCR 1, and reduced to a TWO with VCR 3)


It is my humble opinion that, given these HUGE advantages, those who have other methods of enhancing their Reactions and Initiatives be given their rightful rewards of enhanced speed and actions. (Note, that I'm not asking for any special pools or TN reductions, just more chances per round to prove how inferior I am to Vortrack the Magnificent.©)

Its the normal adept problem. A rigger gets dice and a target number drop, an adept just throws a chit load of dice. He gets all his reaction and what not if hes driving (aka not a datajack or VCR). So he can drive good, just not as good.

Other than for Riggers, I think Reaction enhancements pretty much all apply while driving unless specifically stated otherwise. Anyway, Riggers are so obscene vehicle-wise that allowing it wouldn't destroy them at all, though allowing the mods to apply to Riggers as well would create an überclass.

And keep in mind that a VCR augments reaction for the purposes of defaulting for vehicle skills, so that adept is outclassed in every way. Unlike the gunbunny question, the physad will not be throwing more dice, and will be looking for higher TNs.

~J

Nevermind, I found it -

Wasent that errated?

No, but don't you worry, there are no physical adepts anymore. Moreover, if you want to be a rules lawyer, it is physical-adept increases in abilities that is banned, so the ban is on the Improve Ability power which in the first place doesn't affect Initiative in the first place.

You listed 3 main arguments against you.

A) Way to cheesy and broken and Uber and overpowered etc.
It would be less than a rigger gets thus it cant be over powered unless it stacks with VCR. I say don’t even let it work unless you are controlling the vehicle by moving your meat.

B) Essentially the same as removing the Rigger Class/ making the same worthless.
it would not grant you control pool or the ability to control more than one vehicle at once. Also I would say it would not work unless you are physically controlling the vehicle.

C) Physically impossible.
It is magic it dose not obey the laws of physics.

I would allow it for physical uses of driving. Otherwise to many cool character concepts (like combat biker adept) are disallowed (and wasn’t combat biker one of the fiew sports that allowed physical-adepts to enter)

Edward

Youre all missing the biggest point.

No VCR = No Control Pool

And when you realize exaclty what and how control pool works in the big picture, and the difference it makes, no amount of reaction/skill dice matter. The distinction between a good drive and a rigger is crystal clear and big. Let them have 500 car dice for all it matters, just give riggers the control pool and itll work itself out.

Not giving non-riggers control pool is unrealistically stupid. They can't physically get out of the way of any attack because they don't have the pool dice. It's better to give them pool dice, because then they have a prayer to dodge something, yet dont get a decreased target number nor improved reaction times.

Yup, your right OurTeam, I've got the "corrected 4th printing".

As to the rest, let me ask this question...

Do you think it would be unbalancing to the game, or unfair to Riggers to allow non-riggers to have the benefit of thier reaction and initiative enhancements?

I think it would be perfectly fine, so long as they are physically controlling the vehicle. When using a datajack or rigging, you don't get the Wired reflexes or reaction enhancers or what have you because you aren't using your physical body to drive, so you don't get to use cyberware designed to make your body react more quickly. I'd even be willing to grant someone without a VCR a Control Pool when driving equal to unaugmented Reaction.

Riggers still have a huge advantage when driving, in the same way that a sam with a SL2 is better at shooting than someone without any cyber, and for the same basic reason (lower TNs). Oh, plus they can control multiple vehicles, can use the vehicle's gunnery and other features without having to reach for them, and in general have the whole vehicle on DNI.

Thank you. Anone else care to weigh in?

I vote no, but I allow mundanes control pool equal to natural reaction, which IMHO is far better for making things work.

Might I ask your reasons?